The original post to Raymond's list by Jack Barr. Starting the Thread.

Hi All,

This forwarded message from "Kingdom Alert" is a very strong message of what is happening in the churches today, all across America, and all across all denominational lines.

May you read it and weep. Pray hard for those caught up in this, that the Lord may lead the people out of these kind of churches.

With the Love of Jesus
Jack Barr

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: [kingdom-alert-update] #276 (11-12-05)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:53:48 -0500
From: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Reply-To: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ' rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
To: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

****************
IN THIS ISSUE
*****************
-THE DEATH OF PASTOR KYLE LAKE: A TRAGEDY AND A WARNING!

-REBELLIOUS THOUGHTS FROM MODERN YOUTH WORKERS

=================================================

******************************************************************
THE DEATH OF PASTOR KYLE LAKE: A TRAGEDY AND A WARNING!
******************************************************************

On Sunday morning, October 30, 2005, Texas pastor, Kyle Lake (1972-2005), died while performing a baptism. He was only 33 years old, and he left behind a wife and children. He commonly used a microphone for such baptisms at University Baptist Church in Waco, Texas. But on this morning, he was electrocuted. The woman he was baptizing was not hurt. The reason for the electrocution at this time is a mystery to investigators.

Christian blog sites are filled with e-mails from confused, hurting people associated with this church or pastor. Some express frustration, and some others have even expressed irreverent anger with God. Why this young husband and father? Why a pastor? Why did he die performing such a holy duty? Why did 800 people in church (homecoming week at Baylor) happen to see his death?

My heart especially broke upon hearing the news of his little ones (a five-year old daughter, and two three-year old sons). And I also desired to know why it happened at this time, to this man, seeing he has left behind a young family. I was also grieved that the enemies of God will likely use the fact that he was a professed Baptist as an occasion to mock, blaspheme and reproach the truth. Some have already reported articles from the world like the following: "So what exactly is God expressing when he electrocutes a fundamentalist preacher in the middle of performing a baptism?...As always, when something bad happens to them, it's God's testing their faith. When something bad happens to you, it's God punishing your misdeeds." ("The Stranger," Seattle). To start with, this pastor was far from being a fundamentalist. But the world does not understand this.

I have no ultimate answers, since the Lord is the King of kings, and He can do as He wills in heaven and earth: "...the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD"..."Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?" (Job 1:21, 9:12). Nevertheless, in the face of this tragedy, I think it would be healthy and proper for every Christian pastor to tremble before the Lord. Aaron was a godly man. And certainly we would expect his sons (i.e. Nadab and Abihu) to be godly, respected ministers. Yet, when they offered "strange fire" while ministering, "there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD" (Leviticus 10:1-2). At this, Aaron wisely held his peace. I am sure the fear of God came upon the whole camp at that time, just as it would later come upon the early church at Jerusalem when Ananias and Sapphira suddenly died: "and great fear came on all them that heard these things" (Acts 5:5). Pastors, teachers, etc., are liable to greater punishments than those who are not in full-time ministry and authority: "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation" (James 3:1). Yet, this does not mean that the fire of God cannot come down upon others in the congregation (Numbers 26:10).

The Lord Jesus teaches us that those who suffer great disasters and tragedies should not be presumptuously reckoned to be greater sinners than others: "think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?" (Luke 13:4). However, even in such cases where there is no direct evidence of sowing and reaping, our Lord teaches us that we should use such occasions for self-examination, repentance and fear: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:5). It is, therefore, proper for every pastor (as well as every Christian), upon hearing of the tragedy of Pastor Lake, to use this time to repent (if need be) and move with fear.

Although Pastor Kyle Lake was not known for fire and brimstone, terror of the Lord sermons, by the providence of God he preached one that final morning by his death. Suffer the word of exhortation. It is a sermon in few words (Hebrews 13:22). This is a sermon for preachers. And will you not hear the sermon, Christian? Are liberal churches "fun"? Do you pretend to be called by God to be a "liberal church missionary," while immersed among them? Is this your justification for having fellowship with apostasy?

If you are not yet motivated to repent and fear God, perhaps the following information will help you reconsider. The death of Pastor Lake "took place just minutes after the 800 members in attendance had prayed aloud, 'Surprise me, God'" (WND). Pastor Lake was a rising leader in the "Emerging Church Movement." He was influenced by Brian Mclaren (the popular ECM leader/author). The EC movement takes the "seeker friendly movement" one more step away from the Bible to the door of a "new age" spirituality. As the "new evangelicals" historically shied away from the word "fundamentalist" due to its associations, the modern, emerging church leaders now shy away from "evangelical" due to its associations! The EC movement leaders had high hopes for Kyle Lake. Pastor Lake often used rock bands and wicked, Hollywood movies for his sermon texts. The very morning of his death, Pastor Lake had planned a sermon that would be the first in a series this year. Notice some excerpts from the sermon he was about to preach:

PASTOR LAKE: "This morning we're launching our 7th annual GOD IN THE MOVIES SERIES."

[This was the 7th year that Pastor Lake had been pastor of this church. As you can see, this was the FIRST sermon, of the SEVENTH year, of a SERIES that actually shows clips from rated-R movies in church, and tries to "find God" (i.e. "moral" themes) in these filthy, bloody, sensual, unclean, blasphemous movies. Pastor Lake died directly before he entered the pulpit to again begin this series which would highlight many rated-R movies and show their clips in the church. On the 7th day, after being circled 7 times, God brought down the walls of Jericho. On the 7th day, the glory of the Lord shined out of the cloud in devouring fire before all of Israel. At the 7th Trump, the wrath of God will fall in fullness upon sinners. And in the 7th year, just before the first sermon of the annual "God in the Movies" series, Pastor Lake lost his life in front of his church and many visitors.]

PASTOR LAKE: "Would you believe we began this series way back in the day when the very FIRST MATRIX MOVIE came out? In fact, I think that was the very first movie that we tried to examine through the lens of a Christian worldview. And every year, about this time of year, we've been doing this because WE FEEL it provides a little microcosm into our church's mission - that is, to live immersed in the world without becoming a product of it."

[Any pastor that is showing clips from bloody, fornicating, antichrist movies, and actually teaching his church that these movies have moral themes, and can actually teach the saints, is simply deceived! He and his church were certainly immersed in the world, and they did become a product of it! The Bible teaches that we are to have NO fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Yet, this was the start of the 7th annual series, where fellowshipping with darkness and sin will be "sanctified" by the pastor from the pulpit. This pastoral example casts stumbling stones before hundreds of young people who will be encouraged to fornicate, lust, and become desensitized as they gaze upon nudity and gore, and pick up the worldly spirit of recklessness before God. It is the opposite of being filled with the Spirit. It is a worldly spirit of throwing caution and prudence to the wind, and drinking of the wine of this world.]

PASTOR LAKE: "So let's KICK OFF THIS YEAR'S SERIES with some Zach Braff, shall we? With a movie that was one of the biggest hits of the year among the twentysomething crowd - I'm talking about GARDEN STATE. When it was released a year ago, it never came to Waco and still, it seemed like 20 different ubcers were asking me if I'd seen Garden State. Well, let's just DIVE IN HERE - with the very first scene of the movie. So CHECK OUT THIS FIRST CLIP...(Clip #1. –00:45-03:39 -no edits needed)"

[According to reviewers of this movie, it is "Rated R for language, drug use and a scene of sexuality." What the world calls "R" in 2005 would have been labeled far worse only decades ago. Welcome to "modern church" for the "perverse generation." May the Lord have mercy on us all. Laodicea is drunk with the wine of the world. She is blind and NAKED.]

PASTOR LAKE: "...But this party scene feels different than some of the others you've seen in movies, right? I mean, at this party you have people smoking pot, ecstasy, coke lines, alcohol being abused, and casual sex being alluded to. So while watching the party scene, someone may well say, 'Oh, it's just like Hollywood to glorify the party scene.' But that's Missing The Point!...And then the next day, Largeman meets someone who revolutionizes his life. Sam. Played by Natalie Portman. She is the exact opposite of everything he's been. If Andrew walks through life numb, practically sterile, and cautious. Sam walks through life greeting every moment with feeling, with color, with vulnerability, throwing caution to the wind...I think you'll see that in this clip…"

[Of course, the movie is a sick, perverted theme, about a young man who pushed his mother down when he was 9, so that she became paralyzed, and he has been numb ever since, until he meets this girl. This is the world's darkness. It makes heroes and role models out of people who do not know God. Part of enjoying a movie or story is identifying with the characters. But the Bible teaches that a companion of fools will be destroyed!]

PASTOR LAKE: "In our final clip of the morning, a large group of them are at Jesse's huge mansion SWIMMING one night - there's about 12 of them. And everyone dives in except for Largeman. He's still standing there on the edge of the pool while everyone's just jumped in and Sam asks him, 'Can't you swim?' And he says, 'Of course I can swim.' (Clip #3. –57:40—59:36 - edit [cuss word])."

[Before this preacher died, he was going to show a "pool scene" from a rated-R movie before the whole congregation. He never got the chance to show this scene. After the whole church prayed aloud to be surprised by God, the pastor died a horrible death. May the Lord have mercy on this church, on this man's family, and on all of us in these last days. Christian, will you not fear God? Will you continue to have pleasure in the wicked works of darkness? Preacher, will you continue to make light of Hollywood, as if viewing such movies is neutral? Will you continue to use such movies for sermon outlines, simply because this is what you are "filled with," and this is what have been doing with your time? Will you continue to offend the little ones by your example? Did not the Lord say that it was better that a millstone be hung from such a neck and he drowned in the depth of the sea? (Matthew 18:6).]

PASTOR LAKE: "...BREATHE. Breathe in and Breathe deeply. Be PRESENT. Do not be past. Do not be future. Be now...Get knee-deep in a novel and LOSE track of time.
If you bike, pedal HARD...and if you crash then crash well....At the table with friends and family, LAUGH. If you're eating and laughing at the same time, then [you] might as well laugh until you puke. And if you eat, then SMELL. The aromas are not impediments to your day. Steak on the grill, coffee beans freshly ground, cookies in the oven. And TASTE. Taste every ounce of flavor. Taste every ounce of friendship. Taste every ounce of Life. Because-it-is-most-definitely-a-Gift" [The End].

On November 6th, 2005, Pastor Lake's church read this sermon (of which the above is only an excerpt). One person from his church, after hearing his sermon for the first time, wrote:

"It was quite possibly the most beautiful thing my ears have ever heard. As one of the LEADERS in our church said, 'I think that's the best [four letter cuss word deleted here] he's ever written.'" ( http://janaleeshadburn.blogspot.com/ )

As you can see, it is obviously normal for this church LEADER to use the same language he has heard in all the worldly movie watching.

While there is certainly some value in teaching people to enjoy their portion under the sun, since death is approaching, the wise preacher will also give the cautions that Solomon gave:

Ecclesiastes 9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Sadly, I believe that Lake's planned sermon was "strange fire." God teaches us NOT to throw caution to the wind in these perilous times of deception and immorality. Notice how different Paul's admonitions to walk in joy are from the above sermon by Pastor Lake:

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore PARTAKERS WITH THEM.
11 And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.
12 For it is A SHAME even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
15 See then that ye WALK CIRCUMSPECTLY, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another IN THE FEAR OF GOD.

Christian joy is not found in immersing ourselves in the world's shameful, dark entertainment. The wrath of God will soon fall upon the children of darkness, and every preacher should be an example by not being a partaker with them. Preachers have been called to preach a sober message of godly separation, that DOES exhort believers to look to the FUTURE (not the present):

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 LOOKING for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
15 THESE THINGS SPEAK, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Increasingly, churches are losing their fear, losing their sobriety, losing godliness, losing their view of the Second Coming, and MUCH OF THE RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THE PASTORS who are not speaking these things, and rebuking with all authority!

All numerical growth is not godly; cancer also grows! Leaven will puff up a congregation. Let's win and train as many as we can, but we must strive lawfully, or there will be no crown (2 Timothy 2:5).

God's reasons for taking Pastor Lake's life are known only to Him. But we would be great fools if we did not take this opportunity to examine our own lives, and trembling, beseech God for mercy, as we repent and flee the ways of the world:

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

*****************************************************************
REBELLIOUS THOUGHTS FROM MODERN YOUTH WORKERS
*****************************************************************

On one side, multitudes of churches are filled with rebellious, unqualified youth workers, who are causing many young saints to make shipwreck of their lives. On the other side, there are many sober, godly youth workers, who are being reproved by pastors or "staff" for teaching separation and sobriety (as seen by some letters I have received). Christian churches are in the midst of a great power struggle. Many have adopted the antichrist spirit of rebellion in the name of "love," or in the name of being "culturally relevant." These ideas have been taken too far by most today. You will no longer have to be amazed that the culture of our nation has fallen so rapidly when you read the following excerpts from a blog correspondence online. It a correspondence between two YOUTH WORKERS. Read it and weep. And then perhaps you should re-examine who you have leading your youth:

"...you know well the frustrations I have every Wednesday when I go to my church staff meeting. Well, yesterday was Wednesday...and it wasn't nearly as bad....But, my use of the movie Chocolat was brought into question. I used it for a recent movie night/discussion during youth group. It is PG-13, but apparently a visitor (of my associate pastors' daughter) is a bit too conservative for this movie. Her dad complained and it got back to me...So, I got this lecture on media and how it should only be used as a tool to communicate Scripture...And why should I get [bad word deleted] when the message of a movie speaks so much more powerfully than the same message read from a bible story in youth group? Why do I have to manipulate it instead of letting it speak for itself? Why can't art just be art?...I am just not one who feels compelled to show four 2-minute movie clips taken out of context as illustrations on something I am trying to get across. Maybe one - but I would just rather show the whole [cuss word deleted] movie. God is not just in the Bible! He is in culture too!!!!!!!!"

Another Christian responded:

"Cory, a few things: 1. I can't believe you used Chocolat. 2. I'm glad you used Chocolat. 3. I don't recommend showing Dogma next then. I used a clip from Dogma, but then regretted it because throughout the (lame) Sunday School lesson, they just kept asking to see the rest of the film, and...if you've seen it...yah, that's just not one I could have PULLED OFF..." [End].

As you can see, these workers are trying to see what they can "pull off." We have entered the age where there is no fear of God. Jude and 2 Peter 2 both predicted these perilous times, where, in the name of "liberty," multitudes will be ensnared again in sin.

********************************
THE ROD: WILL GOD SPARE IT
*********************************
More books have been printed. If you would like to order a copy of this book, call: 469-658-6046, or send a check or money order to:

Fundamental Books
700 Cordes Dr.
Venus, TX 76084

*****************************
KINGDOM BAPTIST CHURCH
*****************************

All articles are by Joey Faust unless otherwise stated. The Kingdom Alert Update is a ministry of Kingdom Baptist Church. Please tell your friends about this newsletter, and please pray that the Lord would use it for His glory.

READ PAST ISSUES OF THE KINGDOM ALERT:

(All issues searchable online)
http://www.KingdomBaptist.org

Pastor Joey Faust
Kingdom Baptist Church
700 Cordes Dr., Venus, Texas, 76084
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ' rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Cell: 469-658-6046

==================================================

Responding to the above post was this one:

Subject: Fw: [Prophecy] Fw: From Jack Barr
From: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:13:03 -0800
To: "list" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >

----- Original Message -----
From: Les Butchart
To: Raymond Aguilera
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Fw: From Jack Barr

Is this newsletter from Pastor Faust just a clever way to sell his books? The kinds of churches he talks about are not book of Acts churches to begin with. It’s no wonder they are corrupt. It seems like he’s just using the sad news about Pastor Lake’s death to stir up emotion and sell some books.

Les

========================================

Followed by this message which I sent to both Raymond for posting on his list, and direct to Les. (it was posted at the end of the next post by Les.)


Hi Raymond.

You may post, or not post, as you desire. I have no wish to start an argument going on your list.

If this is posted, then I would request that any further postings about it should be made to ProphecyLink.com.

To the people who have been reading Raymond's list, I am compelled to respond to what has been posted in response to my posting of Pastor Faust's newsletter.

The response was as follows:


In answer, I must say that I posted the "Kingdom Alert" newsletter to my own email list, which has Raymond as one of the addresses. It was Raymond's choice to repost it to His list, and this is his right to do so if he so wished. Just as it is your right to repost it anywhere if you wish to do so.

Now having said that: I will also say the following.

There will always be someone out there who, when anything is posted which shows the Satanic practices out there in the world, or in the Churches as this case is, who will post something in an attempt to divert your attention away from the truth of the message, to something small and petty, which has absolutely nothing to do with the message at hand.

The 1st message in the "Kingdom Alert" Newsletter is one of showing that the pastor who was killed while baptizing, has for years been preaching "ANOTHER GOSPEL" of it being Ok to be out in the World doing what the world does. And was about to show again on that day, parts of movies showing open fornication, with his published sermon suggesting to the people of it all leading to something good if they also fornicate. Which is a lie, and in direct conflict with what the Bible teaches. That pastor had been for years been leading his flock towards the pit of hell.

The 2nd message was how the "New Age" Sunday School teachers in many churches today are not teaching your children about God, and or the Word of God. But are following their own agenda of leading your children to their way of thinking.

These are the two messages in the "Kingdom Alert" newsletter that this responder is trying to divert you away from paying attention to, by throwing in something totally different, totally unrelated. Their hope is that by diverting you away from the True message, that they can stop that message from your mind and heart. To divert you from the warning which was given to you in the "Kingdom Alert" newsletter.

With the Love of Jesus
Jack Barr

===========================================

This is the next in line post from Les that went up on Raymond's List.


----- Original Message -----
From: Les Butchart
To: Raymond Aguilera
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Response to Barr

Friends,

If you read it sentence by sentence, you’ll see that my post (the post that Jack Barr says is: “an attempt to divert your attention away from the truth of the message, to something small and petty, which has absolutely nothing to do with the message at hand”) says two things: first thing -- this pastor, Pastor Faust, uses an email newsletter to sell books – peddling the Word of God for profit – notice that you can BUY his books with check or money order! Many of today’s pastors/writers/prophets are enriching themselves in the Christian marketplace, so it’s wise to question their motives.

The second point of my post is that the corrupt churches Pastor Faust talks about are nothing new. You can read Barna and see how the contemporary American church is failing, just visit one or two and you’ll see the mongering after money and capitulations to the world, particularly in terms of consumerism — fancy clothes, expensive cars, huge buildings, big staffs and other extravagant wastes of money.

Many “emerging churches” are just repackaged traditional churches — new lingo, same structure — nothing really new, nothing “emerging.” And yet, what so-called “emerging churches” are trying to do is address the postmodern mindset, and this mindset is a real thing and real challenge to the Church. The attempts of pastors to reach postmodern people should be encouraged, not ridiculed; the truth is that Jesus Christ lived and taught in a Roman world in which beliefs and truth were relative (among non-Jews), and the Gospel is perfectly adequate in itself to tackle the postmodern mindset, even though the traditional church (church as a business organization) is inadequate.

The “message” Jack Barr talks about is nothing new, it is just being sensationalized by Pastor Faust using the sad tragedy of Pastor Lake’s accidental death. For anyone to claim they know God’s thoughts and purposes with regard to Pastor Lake’s death is PRESUMPTUOUS.

It is obvious that the newsletter uses fear to peddle books and generate notoriety. A pastor should be more loving and gentle — remember, love defines our character as Christians -- and just imagine the pain the family must be experiencing; for anyone, especially a fellow pastor, to use this tragedy for his own ends is sad commentary on the very corruption Pastor Faust is condemning.

Also, I don’t like the aggressive, condemning tone of Pastor Barr. I am confident enough of my position in Christ and understanding of the Gospel to question the sensationalist methods Pastor Barr and Pastor Faust seem to favor. Barr makes it sound as if I am an associate of Satan – he writes: “There will always be someone out there who, when anything is posted which shows the Satanic practices out there in the world, or in the Churches as this case is, who will post something in an attempt to divert your attention...” - to me this sounds like I am trying to divert attention from Satanic practices .. Er, no, that’s actually what he is saying! And he doesn’t even know me! He could have emailed me first to talk about this before calling me a Satan defender ... But that seems to be exactly what he and Faust want to do ... They treat important, sensitive matters (like a person’s integrity, or their faith) in a superficial way ... In order to make their points. What proof does Pastor Barr have that Pastor Lake is engaged in Satanic practices?!!! Is it because he screened clips from films? Wow, that’s quite a leap of logic, not to mention an insensitive condemnation of a Pastor who died a horribly tragic death.

Les

============================================

Followed by this post in answer to the above and previous postings from Les


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Gregory
To: 'Raymond Aguilera' ; 'list'
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Prophecy] Response to Barr

Two possible responses... if indeed Raymond would post it. He hasn't my last one or two messages. Hm, does he feel that someone is competing with his market? That's just what this is all about.

1. He who is innocent may cast the first stone. http://www.prophecy.org/book.htm - is there a difference? We just don't know. Neither you nor the pastor will put your finances up on the web for review. I wouldn't either.

2. Ministry isn't free - it just isn't. It takes money to propel the Word of God to the several places it needs to go. I have never run the finances of a church, but I am sure it costs money.

As long as this is what he intends on doing with the money he earns, then that is great. Outside of this, we just don't know what he is doing. Does he live in a mansion? Does he drive a Ferrari? You don't know his intentions, or what he does. All we can do is pray that his motives are pure. If they are not, he'll pay and be judged - not by YOU, but by THE Judge. If he is cheating with God's stewardship funds, God will deal with him when the time comes! Do you not believe this?

We spend more time critiquing people instead of helping them refine themselves as followers and believers of Christ, and the work of good people gets stained - further stymieing the Great Commission. It's a problem that is as old as sand. No one will EVER listen to us tell them of the Gospel until we start working together and stop in-fighting.

===============================================

And this is the response to the above post by Aaron, which the Lord God had me send in to Ray for it to be posted. (which has not been posted to Ray's list.

The Lord said that since it was not posted on Ray's List that I was to post it here.


Hi Ray, I am sending this out a second time, for your Anti-Spam program may have deleted it, and it has an important message from the Holy Lord God within it.

Hi All,

As Jack Barr who has "Godsword Bible Study" on the web, I have no problem posting my income source, although I do not recommend anyone else do so, for it sets a bad precedence.

In the 20 years since I came to the Lord God and was called to minister as an ordained Evangelist. I can tell you that outside of a very, very small pension, when I was forced into retirement at age 55, and Social Security, I have been paid only three times for preaching, each time they took up a collection from those present for the one time gift offering. It is the Holy Lord God who provides all that I need, when I need it. And the Lord has had someone on occasion to send an unsolicited donation to me as the Lord God has directed them. Otherwise I pay all expenses for my ministry, and the Lord has never left me short.

Now I am going to tell you that Raymond, whom I have never met, nor have I ever talked to him on the phone, and only very rarely have we ever exchanged private emails of any kind, Is Himself living and operating on the donations which the Holy Lord God has put upon the hearts of those who send him donations. Of which I have been one, on occasion. And as has several others who are virtually supporting His Ministry. Even so, Raymond struggles to even put food on the table, and most of the time his house payment is hard to come up with. The Lord provides what Raymond needs, But when you put the Lord's work first, you will NEVER be living high on the hog as they say. And I will say that the very few books which Raymond sells[u] does not put money in his pocket. And everything which is in those books is absolutely free on his web site, free to download, or to read as anyone desires.

Now having said that, those who are of the Holy Lord God Jesus Christ has already seen that any, and I do say ANY postings about books in relation to the newsletter by Pastor Faust, is a Demonic DIVERSION away from the Message of Warning which was given in the original posting of a newsletter.

And from the Holy Lord God, this message for all who read this post:


Aaron, The word you give is good. However, when Satan raises up his head, you had better fight back. For that is NOT Infighting!! That is fighting for the survival of souls!!

With the Love of Jesus
Jack Barr
============================================

And two more responses posted to Raymond's List, One directed at Les and at Aaron Gregory's Post


----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Johnson
To: Raymond Aguilera
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Response to Barr

After reading all this, I felt I had to say something. I don't understand what the big deal is about that there is this backbiting. Les, it's nothing personal against you. I understand where you are coming from because I would question the same thing. But the way you presented it, it did seem a little like Rev. Barr said, that were brushing over the point. Don't be so fast to rush to your own defense. There is usually wisdom in what Rev. Barr says, even if you don't agree with him. Rev. Barr will be the first to tell you that he and I have butted heads on several occasions, and even when I believe he is totally wrong, I will still take into serious consideration what he has said, because he is a dedicated man of God, and men as dedicated as him can see some things even when they don't readily appear to others.

And Aaron, I hope I have totally misunderstood you challenging Ray and questioning how he runs his ministry. He posts things to his list as led by the Spirit. If he didn't post it, either he did not get it, because funny things tend to happen to emails to him, or the Spirit did not lead him to do it - meaning there was something wrong with it or the timing was wrong. Ask God what happened. Don't ascribe malicious motives to Ray. He is totally filled with the Holy Spirit, and a prophet of the Most High, and you are risking judgment calling him on petty things like emails and trying to make him out to be just another Joe peddling his version of the Gospel. His finances are well known to those who have been receiving his emails for any length of time - he doesn't have any outside of God. But that's beyond the point. If you believe that he really is a prophet of God, you know that he is different than other people who claim to be of God. To compare him to other people is wrong.

Ray, I hope I'm not being presumptuous speaking about you like this, but I got annoyed when I read all this. This is unnecessary and harmful to the morale of all the people reading this. There is absolutely no need for this, and anyone who challenges you in this manner is not acting in accord with the Spirit.

===========================================

And one directed at Les Butchart's post.

----- Original Message -----
From: Noah Kinderknecht
To: Raymond Aguilera
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Fw: [Prophecy] Response to Barr

Dear Les Butchart,

Don't you know that there are only two kingdoms?

One is the Kingdom of God, the other is the kingdom of Satan. That's it.

One will last for eternity, and the other is destined for fire, and already stands condemned.

Everything we do goes to building one of these two kingdoms, and we are urged in scripture to watch how we build for we will be accountable for our choices.

We are only to build by the direction of the Lord, as He wills, and we need not build in ignorance because He has already given to us a sure and solid foundation, and a cornerstone by which to judge what is straight and what is skewed. This cornerstone is Jesus Christ, and the foundation that has been laid is the revelation of Jesus Christ given by the Holy Spirit in the scriptures. We also need not build alone, for Jesus Christ has sent the Holy Spirit to live inside of us and to lead us into all truth as we build according to His good work.

I don't need Pastor Faust or Reverend Barr's word to tell me that Pastor Lake was not preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Pastor Lake's own sermon is clear enough and the scriptures and the Holy Spirit testify of the rest.

The fact that Pastor Faust is offering books for sale doesn't make Pastor Lake's words any less false, which was the whole point of the message.

Pastor Lake's words are false because they exalt themselves in contradiction to the Word of God.

His work is shown for what it is.

It is a very simple issue, and Reverend Barr is right when he says that it is unconnected to whether books are or are not being sold.

If that is truly your concern, whether or not books are sold or not sold, then please, create a new thread to discuss whether books should or should not be sold, but please don't suggest that there is a connection between whether Pastor Faust sells books and whether Pastor Lake is true or false.

Should you believe me only because I am not selling books?

Not at all.

There is only one reason why you should believe me and that is whether or not the Holy Spirit testifies of my words and whether or not they agree with the foundation that has already been laid.

So I appeal to the Holy Spirit and the scriptures as my witness.

A warning has been put before all of us because the Lord does not want us to be ignorant.

The warning is this: Watch how you build, because you will be held accountable.

I don't know that I can be clearer than that.

P.S. - To Aaron Gregory I would only ask this: What fellowship can light have with darkness? Jesus Christ did not work together with the Pharisees and Sadducees of His day, on the contrary, He said much to correct them, but they felt they had no need of His refinement, and so they rejected Him. Their loss, but it seems that the Gospel did alright in spite of their choices. People still heard, and they still believed.

-
Noah Kinderknecht
=====================================

Now if there is anyone else who wishes to join in, come right in and start posting to this thread.