A Question that was asked and answered.

PASTOR,
CAN YOU HELP? I WAS ASKED IN MY BIBLE STUDY THIS QUESTION:
IF A PERSON IS MENTAL AND TAKE THEIR OWN LIFE[SU1CIDE] CAN THEY GO TO
HEAVEN?
I SURE HOPE YOU CAN HELP, I’VE TRIED OTHERS BUT NO REPLY, I THANK YOU FOR
TAKING TIME TO POSSIBLE ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

in christian love
xxxx

Answer:

Subject: Re: your question
From: yourcornm <yourcomm@barr-family. corn>
Date: Thu. 27 May 2004 20:23:20 -0500
To: xxxx

Hi xxxx,

You have asked a VERY good question, and a question over which there is much controversy. It is not enough to say yes or no, you need an explanation.

I am sure that your pastor, who is teaching your Bible Study, does have an answer in mind. And I will neither say that his answer will be right, or wrong.

I believe that the question you are asking is that IF a person is mentally incompetent, would their taking their own life (suicide), keep them from Heaven, or would they, because they were mentally incompetent, he allowed to enter Heaven instead of Hell?

It is on this understanding of your question that I will base my answer, as led by the Almighty Lord God Jesus Christ.

To start, it is necessary to understand that babies, and a little child, who has not yet reached an age of understanding right from wrong, will go to heaven if they die for any reason, Because without knowing the difference between right and wrong, they are incapable of committing a sin.

And so we can also see that there are, on rare occasions, when a person can grow to adulthood physically, but mentally are still no more than three or four years old, and really do not understand right from wrong at all in their life. These people are also incapable of committing a sin against the Lord God, and when they die, regardless of the way, they will go to heaven just as a little child will.

But These are NOT mental incompetence in the sense that you are asking. And if they take their own life, it will not be by design or by choice, for they are incapable of making that choice, thus if they take their own life, it will be by accident and would not be Suicide.

Having cleared that point out of the way, let us go on to someone who has reached an age of knowledge of right and wrong, who later in life develops a mental problem, and while in that mental state chooses to end their own life (suicide - for suicide is a conscious choice to end their own life for any reason )

it is a conscious choice, because regardless of their mental state, they will agonize over doing it or not. I know that this is absolutely true, for I will never forget how I agonized over pulling the trigger, before I shot myself. If the bullet had been a quarter of an inch to one side, I would not be here writing to you today! The problem which looked so large that I couldn’t see any way to climb that mountain, was reduced the next morning, All I saw of that problem the next morning was a little crack in the sidewalk that I could have easily stepped over. I am convinced that it was a demonic influence which led me to that point. I still remember the next morning asking myself why I had done such a stupid thing, but what I did was still choice.

It has been said by some, that anyone who has committed suicide, did so because they had a mental problem, and so were not responsible for their actions. This is an answer usually given by someone who has lost a loved one to suicide, and just can not accept that their loved one went to hell for their sinful act. I do not challenge that they had a mental problem, for I had a mental problem the night that I shot myself. But does that justify the act?? The answer is NO!

lf we accept that argument of not being responsible because of mental incompetence, or mental problem, then we must also accept that one who commits a murder, or steals something, or rapes someone, also has a mental problem and thus is not responsible, because the mental problem left them with no choice. Our very society rejects that argument out of hand. And so why should we expect God to shrug his shoulders and say, “That’s ok son, even though you sinned, I’ll let you in anyhow.” I could go into all the different verses in the bible which bears on this but I will not, for that is not what you are asking for.

God does NOT accept man’s argument about mental problems, or mental incompetence, as a way to sidestep his commands. To Commit Suicide is Always a choice, just as committing any sin is a choice. The biggest problem is that one who has committed suicide has no way of repenting before standing before the judgment seat of God.

Now that I have given you my answer, you may do whatever you wish with it,. to believe, or to reject, for you have that choice.

I have no Idea what your Bible Study teacher believes, or what he will teach, but that is between him and God. It is Not between him and me. And just as I stand before My Lord God, and will answer to Him for what I teach about God’s Word, so does every man who calls himself a Christian.

While my teachings about suicide may be different from his, do not stand up and tell him that he is wrong because preacher Jack said thus and thus!! If you challenge his, or my teachings, do so only on the basis of what the Lord God is telling, and showing you. I can only hold up a sign saying this is the way to salvation, and everywhere you look there are men holding up the same kinds of signs, except that they all point in different directions. So the only way that you can ever know which is teaching you God’s Truth, and pointing to the True Path of Salvation, is to go before God in prayer, for only God can show, and reveal which is telling the truth and which is telling false. Do not trust My words, Do not trust Any Man’s words, about what God is telling us to do. Listen, then study His Word, and go before God, for God’s Holy Spirit to guide you to the Truth and the correct path to salvation.

The answer to your question is NO they can not.

Jack, It was always my understanding that a saved person was saved, not based on his own merits, but on his being covered by the blood of Jesus. People who commit suicide are often tortured souls. I believe if they were saved to begin with (before they commit suicide), than the issue is not about whether they were able to repent of their sin, but instead, whether their sins, past, present and future were covered by The Blood Of The Lamb, Jesus.

Love, Claire

I remember somewhere God told Ray that when he gets to Heaven Ray's unconfessed sins (or something to that extent ... sins he didnt think to confess etc) will be between just him and God...

I don't know, just something I remembered...

doorkeeper331 wrote:


My dear sister Claire,

May the Lord God continue to bless and keep you from all harm.

If we, or God, would accept the argument that by accepting Jesus Christ, and being washed in His Blood, that when we came to him, that every sin that we ever did, and every sin that we will ever commit is now, and forever, forgiven by virtue of the Blood of the Lamb, Jesus, without our ever having to repent ever again, then there would be NO Need to ever stop, or turn away from committing the very sins that we were doing before coming to Jesus.

We could just go on committing every abomination listed in the Bible because we have already been forgiven for them. Is that True???

If someone hit you in the face with their fist, and you forgave them for it, would it mean that they could keep on hitting you in the face because you forgave them once???

If they had murdered one of your children, and you forgave them for it, would that mean that they can now murder all the rest of your children just because you forgave them once??

NO, NO, NO, Not one of us would believe that, so then why, when even you would not accept that forgiven once means that you will always be forgiven without ever having to ask for forgiveness ever again, while you keep on committing the same acts, Why then would you Expect God to let you commit all the sins you want to commit without ever even asking for forgiveness, and still let you into heaven??

Throughout the Bible, from start in the Garden of Eden, to the end of Revelation, God has always said Do it MY Way, Or Else!!

Yet there are so many out there who are still believing Satan telling them that God didn't really mean that!! Telling you that God is so very loving that you can spit in His Eye and God will hug and kiss you for it.

NO! When you first come to Jesus, giving Him your heart, you Repent!!! Of every sin that you have ever sinned against Him, and He is Gracious and does Forgive you for He said that He would. And at that moment, you are forgiven of every sin that you ever committed against Him. But from them on, every time you sin, you MUST Repent. Don't you know that the Bible tells you that is true. Have you not read the Book of Ezek. Chapters 3, 18, 33. God says that if you sin and do not repent that you will DIE (the second death).

ld50negative1 wrote:


Hi Brother,

Ezekiel 18:26 "When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die."


God does not allow any kind of sin in heaven. None whatsoever.

While it is true that if you have any unrepented sin on your soul when you die, it most certainly will be between you and God, and no one else. But look at what God just said in Ezekiel, if you commit a sin, (iniquity) and do not repent of it before you die, then you will also die the second death, == the Lake of Fire!!

Just how hard is it to go before God every day and ask forgiveness for every sin that I might have committed against him that day??

It's a shame that the churches are so divided and there is no clear message on difficult issues such as this

man has corrupted what Paul and the early apostles setup long ago where the message was CRYSTAL CLEAR what was needed for a new believer...
now someone is born again and they're left on their own even though they don't know ANYTHING yet

o well, in my own experience the Father will discipline you somehow....

rappo

Jack Barr: Just how hard is it to go before God every day and ask forgiveness for every sin that I might have committed against him that day??

As an example in the Bible:
Job 1:5 "When a period of feasting [his sons and daughters parties] had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom."

BlueRiverTributaries wrote:


My brother, it is just a simple as saying to the Lord, "Jesus please forgive me for every sin that I have committed against you today, for every way of displeasing you. "

And if you mean it in your heart, you will be forgiven.

You could, if you felt that you needed to, add to that simple request for forgiveness by adding, "If I have any sins outstanding in my life that I have not asked forgiveness for yet, I ask it now Lord." and it never hurts to ask the Lord that if there is ANY Root of Bitterness in you that the Lord bring it out and show you so that you can overcome it.

Ask the Lord to show you if there is anyone in your life that you need to forgive. The Lord will show you this, and will show you any root of bitterness that is in your heart, for these two go together. Then after the Lord has brought to your memory these, you can and will forgive and cleanse your heart of these things.

It is easy to follow Jesus, if that is the desire of your heart. The Lord will forgive, then you must forgive yourself. The Lord, after forgiving you, then puts it away, as far as the east is from the west. He will never mention it to you ever again. So you must do the same. Every time that Satan tries to bring it back up to your memory, you must tell Satan to get lost because you have already forgiven and been forgiven, and soon even Satan will stop trying to bring it up to you.

Now have the faith to believe that Jesus has really forgiven you, and that you start over like a new born baby, clean and pure.

Well said!

Jack, Greetings and Hello!

I firmly believe you speak for God. Saying that, I have little doubt that a person who continues on in willful rebellious sin probably will find himself in the pit, once saved or not, for he is crucifying The Lord of Glory all over again in his blatant disregard for the gift that has been given him. I myself am the posterchild for judgement and correction, Thank God!!!! I guess what I am saying is that i find it hard to believe that a person tormented by the oppression that accompanies suicide, if he is truly saved and has lived a godly life to the best of his capabilities up to the end, will find himself in the pit having committed this heartbreaking sin. Will God send a man to hell who has committed his whole life to truth for having given in to the torment that often goes hand in hand with suicide? Perhaps he has struggled with depression and oppresson his whole life as some christians do, and for reasons unknown to man was never able to conquer it?? I myself have been there and currently struggle with oppression and depression and it is horrible. It is w/o a doubt demonic and God has promised me relief and victory. Honestly, i would not want to test God on this issue, I just believe that "He does not treat us as our sins deserve or reward us according to our iniquities ," and would have compassion on his true child, haven fallen to this particular sin.

Love, Claire

From doorkeeper331


The answer is YES

You ask a valid question, and a question many ask. For the answer we must go back to the Bible (KJV) which is the Holy Word of God.



Oh my Brother, it is not I who says so, It is the Holy Lord God Almighty who has said so.

As soon as we commit any sin (inequity) we loose all the Righteousness that we had up to that point. We are now sinners, (wicked) consigfned to hell, who upon repenting, now turning from our wickedness delivers our soul, and starts our Righteous living all over again. Our Righteousness is only good from that last time that we repented after having sinned. All righteousness before that is lost.

Look at Ezek. 18:26, It tells you that if you have sin on your soul when you die, That is, you have not repented, that you will die (the second death) So the question comes up, How does one who sins by committing suicide repent??

I know that there are so very many who reject this, for they choose to belive that they can enter heaven with sin upon them. They choose to believe that God is so loving that He will let everyone into heaven no matter what they have done or will do.

I do not believe that you hold these beliefs.

I can and do tell you and everyone else that I have been a person tormented by the oppression that accompanies suicide. I have been there, so I can, and do, speak from personal experiance, as well as from the Holy Word of God. If the bullet had been 1/4 inch to one side, the doctors tell me that I would not be here writting this. But yet they say to me that I just could not possibly know what they are going through. But I have not only been where they are now, but I have been past that to where they have not yet gone. And I beg them to not take that last step. Most will not come out as I did.

The true Compassion of the Lord God is to allow man to repent, and to receive Forgiveness from God. This is unique in all of God's Creation. For it is only the Angels and Man who was given the right to choose to serve God or to reject God. Out of all of God's Creation we are the only one who had also been given the right to return to God after having Rejected Him by committing a sin against Him. Only Man has been given this gift.

While the Angels were given the right to choose, once they had chosen, they could never again change that choice. Those Angels who choose to dissobey God, sinning against God, can never again return to Him.

But Man was given this additional gift from God. The only stipulation which God put on any man returning to God after having sinned against Him, was that man had to Repent, this is more than just saying "I'm sorry", it is a change of heart, a true desire to never do it again, 9no matter how many times we slip and fall, we can come back each time, If we Repent) and that is true Repentance which the Lord God accepts and rejoices of.

I hope that this will answer your question.

From Prophecy 1689

... The descriptions of what you call Heaven, paradise in a sense are symbols that I placed in the Bible and in people's minds so they could comprehend a place, another dimension that would be comprehendible. That you could comprehend, that there is a place that you are going to. These symbols are representations of the actual thing. There is Peace. There is Love. There is Jesus. There is the Holy Spirit, and there is Me, the Father, Jehovah. But even these things are so deep - you cannot really comprehend them in the flesh. I can only relate symbols to you that your mind can comprehend in some way. There have been people who have died, have killed themselves, to go to Heaven and it isn't the way man thinks it is. These symbols of mansions, these symbols of a wondrous place - is more wondrous than you can comprehend. But it is in a different - I could say dimension - I could say place - I could say the Word, "Heaven". But these Words do not really give a - an idea of what Heaven is...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full prophecy:

[url:1c5pfzpd]www.prophecy.org/1689pro.htm[/url]

John 9.1-3

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So be it, believe as you like!

I am not sure just what you had in mind by posting that prophecy? if it was with the idea that the prophecy was saying that you could get into heaven by killing yourself, or if you were posting it with the idea that it showed that you could not get into heaven by killing yourself.

the prophecy which says

There have been people who have died, have killed themselves, to go to Heaven and it isn't the way man thinks it is.

Yes indeed, the prophecy certainly does say that doesn't it. It does say that people have killed themself with the idea that they would go to heaven when they did. Yes, that is what it says. That is a clear statement that people have killed themself with the belief that by doing so they would get into heaven. But it is also a clear statement that it was not the way that they thought it was.

But where does it say that they got into heaven???????? It does not say that does it??? It only says that people did kill themselves to go to heaven!!! And it also says that it is not the way that those men thought it was. Read it again brother, They killed themself to go to heaven, then found out that they didn't get into heaven like they thought they would (and it isn't the way man thinks it is)

Now if you really believe that it is telling you that you can go to heaven just by killing yourself, then why are you still here???? It is because you do not really believe that you can get to heaven if you kill yourself?

GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART

HE KNOWS THE MOTIVES

ITS ABOUT REPENTANCE