Hey Ray,

I wanted to put this to the email list, the brothers and sisters in Christ for there understanding of this as well. As I've stated before I'm in a sense on a mission to figure out this Amillennialist ideology. Well I've found some very interesting stuff and through correspondence with other pastors, like Pastor Vic Dobner (a more Charismatic type of Pastor) and David Strain (an Amillennialist, type but disagreeing in some aspects to the view.). It seems that David Strain and I are much closer in views that I first thought.

His understandings of NT prophets/prophecy and prophecy today, I can't say whether or not it's the same, but it does make sense. The 1,000 years reign of Christ Jesus I can't really say that it is untrue from the view of Amillennialistic view points. Because of these chapters that match each other from Acts to Revelation.

But the book that I read was confusing because of continually putting Amillennial and PostMillennial in the sentences over and over again saying this one is this and that one is that. Just got word jumbled and confusing. But the book is called "The Future of the Promise".

Jesus did say these things will come shortly, or these things are immediate or close. Maybe that's what He meant. Because if you read Revelation 12 it describes the plight of Mary with Jesus and Satan using Herod and the waters pouring forth from his mouth and being swallowed up by the earth to help them. To me that reminds me of Revelation speaking of the Whore who sits upon the beast and the many waters, which represents peoples and nations that she sits upon.

And Revelation 19 describes the man on the white horse with the labels on his robes saying King of kings and Lord of lords. And all the kings of the earth coming against Him. This is described in Acts 4:24 as being either partially fulfilled or fulfilled.

So I would like to pass this on to the list for it's discernment and contemplation. I'm not saying that prophecy is not needed, but what I am saying is we need to be very careful of what prophecies and which prophesying we accept. It makes sense to use discernment to divide the Word from the Word and to truly get to the meaning of what we as the Body of Christ should be focusing on. Yes I still believe that we are having visions and dreams and young men are having visions and old men are dreaming dreams and daughters and sons are prophecying. But we must be careful of this and not take it too far. As I agree with David on this point that if these were "from the Lord" then why wouldn't we put it in as another chapter of the Bible. But maybe we should look at that and see, if we have witnesses that these things are true and hold up to the test of the Holy Spirit why aren't we giving these prophecies more weight?

It's just something to put out to the Body of Christ for it's understanding and discernment. I don't want to opinionate this, but get unbiased understanding of this topic and it's understanding.

And please whatever you do, do not think that I'm attacking anyone who has the calling of a Prophet today. I am just trying to get to the bottom of this and study what is the Truth that will set us free. Ray, I love you as a brother and I am just putting this out there to clarify where we stand. Are these tellings of the Future, or are these Forth Tellings from God Himself. Directly from His Mouth, then we need to get this tested by the Body of Christ and put into the Bible. If not we need to discard this as God speaking forth a new Word, and just use it as a telling of the future. I definitely don't think that Ray is trying to deceive and he is doing what the Lord is telling him to do and I've followed him since '95 and believe he's doing what the Lord is telling him to do and nothing more and nothing less. So this is not an attack on anyone person, it's a question of what prophecy really is. Of what it is meant to do. I'm trying to renew my mind on this and look at the Bible with new eyes. And read it with new understanding and discernment and interpretation. I have asked the Holy Spirit to open my eyes and reveal His Word to me especially in the challenge of Amillennialism, but not just that aspect. And I've started to get answers to this question and now I'm proposing them to the Body of Christ for confirmation.

Leaving this with you to discern and decide. If you want to comment on this I think it's going to be a bigger discussion then let's move it to the ProphecyLink site for further discussion. I'll post this there as well.

a brother and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Tristan

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Xavier Kress < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: Pastor Vic Dobner < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Cc: David Strain < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:18:58 AM
Subject: Maybe not Amillennialism, but something close


Hi Pastor Vic,

I was reading Acts and saw a passage or a chapter that seems to agree with David Strain the pastor that I've had correspondence with to some extent, there are some discrepencies. I just wanted to pass it along to you. Now he states that prophecy isn't needed and that there is no need for warnings because the Bible gives us all the warning we need. I believe the latter to be true to some extent. Although God warned His People, He would do it multiple times to give them heed to His Words and sometimes He'd only give them one time to repent of their mis-deeds. Annanias and Saphira is an example of immediate judgment.

Acts 4: 24 And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, "O Lord, it is You who (AF)MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM,
25who (AG)by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'(AH)WHY DID THE [a]GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS?
26'(AI)THE KINGS OF THE EARTH TOOK THEIR STAND,
AND THE RULERS WERE GATHERED TOGETHER
AGAINST THE LORD AND AGAINST HIS (AJ)CHRIST.'

27"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy (AK)servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both (AL)Herod and (AM)Pontius Pilate, along with (AN)the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,

28to do whatever Your hand and (AO)Your purpose predestined to occur.



In reading this it matches Rev 19. All the kings of the earth coming against the man on the white horse. However I don't know that it's a complete fulfillment because Jesus entered in on a donkey and not a white horse. So if this is a fulfillment and the other verse/chapter I sent you of Rev 12 with this being the birth of Jesus Christ and matching His story. I think the water pouring forth from the dragon's mouth is people. Because in Rev it speaks of the Whore who sits upon many waters and then it goes to describe that the water is the people and nations. Herod sent his armies to go after the child and then killed all the 2 year olds and below. So maybe that part of the Amillennialists is right, but to say that we don't need Prophets because Jesus is the Ultimate is incorrect? I know that we pray to Jesus Christ and He's our intercessor to God the Father, and He's the mouthpiece of God. But we still need people to warn us of coming immediate danger in the sense of earthquakes, volcanic erruptions, and major devestation correct? Because the Bible states in Matthew that these things will happen in different places. So we need to know where so we can either run and hide or stay where we're planted and the miraculous Hand of God will protect us through the storm. But if Jesus just left it at different places we wouldn't know where to run and hide or stay.



So maybe this is a partial fulfillment of this vision to John. But I don't know if Jesus Christ going to the Right-Hand of God is the Reign of Christ in the Millennium. So getting somewhere with this study, but still not convinced we're in the millennium from Christ's death and ressurection. But I'm going to keep reading and studying and asking the Holy Spirit to lead me to All Truth in His Word.



a brother and servant of Jesus Christ,



Tristan

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From: Xavier Kress < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: Pastor Vic Dobner < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:35:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Maybe not Amillennialism, but something close



Hey Pastor Vic,

Here is David's response to this as well. I've been asking him about what his views are on this and with Biblical backing or proof that has made his decision of clarity.

It seems that our views aren't too far off from what is being spoken on. There are some smaller points still, but it's not as critical as it seemed. Maybe you can gleen some insight into this as well?

Thanks for your help with all of this and your prayers!

Tristan


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: David Strain < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: Xavier Kress < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:37:14 PM
Subject: Re: Maybe not Amillennialism, but something close


Tristan,
Thanks for this. I am really busy right now and dont have time to give a full answer on Amillenialism etc. I just want to make a couple of observations and general points. I will try to give a more thorough Biblical defense of Amillenialism in due course when I get time- though I thnk the books I have given you will do a much better job of explaining it than I ever could. If they dont persuade you I certainly wont.

1. Remember Amillenialism is an interpretation of scripture dealing with the way history unfolds between the first and final return of Christ. It does not neccessarilly involve any specific view regarding the continuation of prophecy etc. That is a seperate issue. Accepting one as biblical doesnt mean you must accept or reject the other. Many people who reject Amillenialism as you do Tristan also reject the idea that prophesy etc continue today, others who would be close to amillenialism of sorts still embrace some form of pentecostal/charismatic theology on the issue of the gifts of the Spirit.
2. Amillenialism teaches that the reign of Christ is already with us, as he reigns from the throne of God at his right hand since his ascension. Satan has been bound, though not destroyed, at the cross. There he was decisively defeated. He can no longer deceive the nations in the sense that the gospel now knows unprecedented growth around the world (especially in areas it had not seen great growth in before, like Asia, Africa, China and Latin America). I do not believe Revelation means that there will be absolutely no spiritual deception or blindness operating during the reign of Christ, while Satan is bound. It is speaking generally and by way of comparison to the kind of spiritual blindness that held the world in darkness for thousands of years before the coming of Christ. Now, by the cross, Satan's wings have been clipped, he is on a leash, he is bound, his ability to keep the world in general in total darkness is restrained. Since Christ's coming the gospel to the ends of the earth, for all people, has been preached and millions have seen the light and come to Christ.
3. Amillenialism does not argue that everything has been fulfilled already and there is nothing left to come. Amilenialism simply does not expect there to be a literal 1000 year reign of christ on earth at a point near the end of history, seing this is as a misinterpretation of the text, based on a misunderstanding of the kind of literature we are reading in Revelation. It is not a road map to world events but a book of images and metaphors that do tell us about the future but also about the present and the past. But its primary focus is on encouraging suffering Christians to remember that Christ has won and will win and that he will keep his own people in salvation to the end.
4. On a different tack, to suggest that the reason we need ongoing prophecy of the kind we find in the new testament today is to warn people about dissasters etc that are still to come so we can 'run away or stay and be protected supernaturally' is in my view just plain wrong. I do not find any indication in scripture that God promises to warn his people of bad things to come. He never guarantee our safety. Indeed he promises martyrdom for many of his people and tells them, "In this world you will have trouble" john 16:33, "if they hated me they will hate you also" john15:18ff. Paul told the church in Acts 14:22 "we must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God.". I believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infalible, and totally sufficient word of God. We need no more than scripture to guide us. Anything beyond scripture, claiming to speak with God's voice, is an illegitimate bind on my conscience. As Luther said, "My conscience is captive to the word of God." My challenge to those who believe there are on going revelations of the same authority and nature as the prophesies of the new Testament is, why arent you compiling them and ading them to your Bibles? Surely they too are the inspired, infallible, inerrant, Word of God? If they are then you confess that the Bible is incomplete and inadequate for our needs, and that God must give us more. Surely theme he gives in prophesy must carry the same weight as the scripture itself does and ought to become scripture too, along with the writings of the apostles and prophets of the New Testament. But to go down this route is heresy and very dangerous indeed.

Now dont misunderstand, I do beleive that God the Holy Spirit is active supernaturally in the world. That he does do miracles and wonders. That he can indeed guide his people by way of impressions and leadings. He often dose prompt people, including me to say and do things in his service, calling scripture to mind, giving insight into situations and giving words to say at the right time in periods of real need. If this is all you mean by prophesy then we dont really disagree- though this looks nothing like NT prophesy, or for that matter the kind of prophecies I have read that you have sent me.

All the prophcies I have read merely leave me wondering 'well so what?' Supposing they are true, which I deny, what have they told me that I hadnt been told to expect already in scripture? If hard times of trial and persecution are to come, I knew that already, and it ought not to surprise me. I didnt need a prophet to tell me about it. I just dont understand the need for it.

I am open minded about supernatural leadings and 'words' from God. I will asses everything on its own merits in the light of the Bible which alone can bind a man's conscience to obey a particular course. So Im not saying God cant 'show up' in supernatural ways in the life of the church or individualys. I am saying, 'show me' and I will judge each incident in the light of Holy Scripture alone. Often times I will say nothing, if what I am been told is ambiguous or neither wrong in itself, nor clearly supernatural. It might be litle more than hyperactive imaginations or some bad beans the night before! But if, as has often been the case, I read or hear things being said with a ' thus saith the Lord'- and what is being communicated is disturbing, perverse or wrong, I will not hesitate to condemn it. Only God's word written binds me to obedience. I am not bound by anything men say, even those who claim to speak from God.

So Tristan it might be helpful in thinking the whole thing through to seperate out the two issues that differ. A persons view of the end times does not mean that the have a partiocular view of supernatural gifts of the Spirit. It might be good to take each issue on its own and evaluate each on its own merits.

Hope this helps clarify my own thinking a little more. I will try to offer a more clearly Bible based picture for my own view of Bible prophesy another time. I just dont have time right now.

Blessings
David

PS I should say that I am not 100% on board with everyhting that is said by classic Amillenialists myself and lean in some areas to a more nuanced Postmillenial position. Postmillenialist are generally more 'optimistic' about the future sread of the gospel and the success of the church in the world than Amilleniamists. I think passages like Romans 11 certainly indicate a period of remarkable worldwide future revival and blessing that is still to come.

Is this theory Mindful of the things of God or Mindful of the things of men?


--Then This Happened, after Jesus Clearly Proclaimed The Fathers Will to be done at Calvary

Matthew 16:22-23

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying,
“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan!
You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God,
but the things of men.”


--Will our opinions change GOD or will our acceptance of His Opinions/Truth/Reality change us?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Unchanging and unchangeable!
Eternal!

--What is Now Considered Logos was at one time Rhema!
If God Is Unchanging, Why would we insist that He Has Changed and/or Changed the way He Has Always dealt with mankind?
Did He Not Always send His Servants to the people to call them back to Himself?
Why is NOW any different than Then?

(What is now written was at one time Inspired By/From The Father/The Holy Spirit/Christ Jesus The Un-Created Creator of all)

Who are We and What Athority Have We Been Given To Define HIM, and from whom have we been given such Authority?

--

Am I questioning God in this? Or am I questioning our interpretation of His Word to us?

I don't believe God changes, because He told us so. That's a constant. What I am saying is are these things something we as the Body of Christ may have overlooked? And need to revisit with renewed vision and understanding and back out of "tradition" and "institutions" and truly take a look at what IS written and throw out that which is not written.

Rev 12 shows us the course of (The woman) Mary and the male child (Jesus Christ). Satan pouring out the water to try to destroy Mary and Jesus Christ the male child. Is people and nations, not water. Revelation backs this up with it's description of another woman mentioned in it of being the Whore of Babylon. Sitting on many waters and on 7 hills. The waters are described as people's and nations.

I am never questioning God. I believe Him to be the Alpha and the Omega. And I trust in Him. I do not have all the answers, but I ask for a little more thought about this and not about telling me whither or not I am questioning God. I do not lean on the understandings of men or women and I'm trying to renew my mind and thinking about the ways of God. For His Ways are not my ways.

I know there are lots of interpretations and schools of thought and understandings about how God is going to let this stuff unfold. I am trying to understand the ways of God and the Heart of God. So please don't be quick to put this aside but think about it and research it for yourselves...Read the Bible and prove yourself Righteous before the Lord.

The Lord loves us all and He loves us whither we love Him or not and His Love doesn't change for us. Seek and you will find. Ask and it will be given unto you. I am seeking and I am asking what He has intended for this period of time. I am getting some answers and more questions, but He is working on renewing my mind.

I am not questioning God, but I am questioning our own intentions and understandings and beliefs. And I'm doing this because God says that His Ways are not our ways. So that means that we don't have it all right.

I love all of you on this list and in the Body of Christ and the lost. Please humble yourselves and take a look at this with the eyes of a child. I am not perfect and you are not perfect, but the one who is perfect is in those who have asked Him to come into them to dwell with them.

a brother and servant of the Most High God Almighty and Jesus Christ,

Tristan

My Friend,

It is not you or your intention that was or should be questioned, only the theory/ideology!
Revelation from The Father will bring out the truth in this and all theories/ideologies.

You may need to consider adding a new category:
OTHER or
None of the above!

I am not saying that things will not unfold according to these theories, just that we need to go to the Lord with the question
posted above and see what He may reveal about the mindfulness of these THEORIES.
(See Matthew 16:13-23 about things mindful of God's Will and things mindful only of man and man's will)

We need to always question, always ask, always seek revelation from the Father.
It is a good thing to ask others about His revelation unto them and then take what they share before The Father in prayer.

You may or may not end up finding out that these ideologies/theories are only mindful of the things of man. (as in Matt. 16:23)

I pray that We may Be Blessed by The Father with His revelation of that which will keep us mindful only of the things of God,
not of the things of man!

There are lots of interpretations, but revelation is something else entirely!

----Matt. 16:17--Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed
this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

~~~

Maybe Something Like This might Be Worth Bringing before The Father!

A Prophetic Dream of Rapture

Armin A. Wolff

(February 15,1993)

Last night I had an extremely exciting and vivid dream-vision concerning the return of our LORD Jesus. I normally never remember anything I dream, but this was so gripping and vivid, and I have been thinking about it all day today. I would like to share it with you and hereby also have a written record.

I found myself in a meeting with a number of believers. The meeting hall looked like some kind of a warehouse and there were fewer than 100 assembled. The talk seemed to center on the increasing persecution they were experiencing. All of a sudden Jesus appeared and most, but not all, were instantly transformed from mortal beings into Immortal. Also, at the same instant, some other Holy Ones appeared who had walked with God in ages past, both in New and Old Testament times. All of the ones who had, in an instant of time, received their new bodies were able to recognize and converse with the Holy Ones from times past. I heard someone exclaim: "I thought You are coming in the clouds to take us away." The reply was: "I am coming in the clouds and... My reward is with Me Behold, here they are, My Holy Ones of all time, My faithful witnesses, those who loved not their life, and thus received it. They are the clouds and my reward, My reward for what I endured on the cross for all."

I heard another question asked of the LORD, by one of the Transformed Persons, whether He would now take them with Him out of the tribulation they were experiencing. He replied: "No, you must remain here for another 40 days and nights, just as I was on Earth for another 40 days after My resurrection and minister with Me to those who were not ready. After the 40 days and nights you will come with Me into the skies above Jerusalem and we will leave from there to have a celebration, a banquet in My Father's house, a feast that has been planned before the worlds were made."

The ones in the assembly, who had remained in their mortal bodies, lamented and cried to the Transformed Ones to help them, but were told: "It is now too late. The Bridegroom has come for us and there is nothing we can do for you, in this regard. However, if you will not love your own life, not bow to the will of the sin-man and take that seal of his, you will join us after the celebration. You will be sealed by your death and kept in the throne room for the LORD."

In what seemed a moment later, I was in another similar assembly in (maybe) another country. There also, the instant transformation had taken place of many. I was told that this same event had happened all over the Earth and all born again, Spirit filled followers of Jesus had been thus transformed, at whatever spot they happened to be in that instant, and were joined by many of God's Holy Ones, from the dawn of creation up to the present time.

Just then, some heavily armed police, or soldiers, burst into the meeting and proceeded to beat, shoot, and arrest the believers. A little blonde Transformed lady stood-up to one of the large men, and refused to move when told she was under arrest. Five or six huge men tried to drag her away, but could not move her any further than they could have moved an ancient redwood or oak tree. This infuriated the police and they started to beat her, and to start shooting their weapons. The bullets went right through the Transformed Believers and made holes in the walls, or in some cases, struck and killed some of the mortals standing behind them. The blows seemed to go through also and have no effect whatsoever on the new resurrection bodies. The remaining mortals were dragged off to prison, along with some of the Transformed Ones who chose to go along. There was no sure way to tell at first glance, who was mortal and who lived in a transcendent resurrection body.

I was then also in a prison, and saw how the Immortals were comforting the anguished souls who were to be executed unless they denounced the name of Jesus. The guards and all governmental authorities were furious that they could do absolutely nothing to prevent the Glorified Believers from coming and going and ministering anywhere on Earth, wherever Jesus told them to go. No wall could hem them in, and no weapon, or human force, could oppose or harm them. One of the Transformed Saints who had lived ages ago on Earth spoke: "Within forty days, all who refuse to accept the seal of the evil one will be killed and kept safe by the Father, personally, in the throne room. Those who give in, will suffer in the Terrible Wrath beginning after the last saint is murdered. This Wrath is the LORD's Last Effort to get rebellious mankind to repent."

At this point, I awoke and as you can imagine, was quite agitated. In fact, my heart rate was considerably above the normal resting level. The clock said 5:05am. Needless to say, I could not go back to sleep. Over time, I may forget the details of this dream, or vision, but one thing I'll never forget is the anguish, wailing, and heart-rending lamentations of those who had to remain here. I do not know how many of these chose to be killed rather than take the seal of the antichrist.

Scripture does speak of a group coming out of the Great Tribulation, but whether some are from those who were left behind, or not, was not made clear to me in this vision.

~~~~~

Maybe Something Like This might Be Worth Bringing before The Father also!

Prepared for the Coming Tribulation

Written By Corrie Ten Boom in 1974

The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are overcomers.

Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lord’s only representatives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, “In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” We too, are to be overcomers - bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting “Hallelujah! Hallelujah!” for I have found where it is written that Jesus said, “He that overcometh shall inherit all things: and I will be His God, and he shall be My son.” This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive - but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.


Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick. “Yes, the Lord will heal me,”, Betsy said with confidence. She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.

It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy’s death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China, the Christians were told, “Don’t worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated - raptured.” Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly, “We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when the tribulation comes - to stand and not faint.”

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it. We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus’ sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, “Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation.” Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, “Nothing could be any worse than today.” But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy. “If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you; on their part evil is spoken of, but on your part He is glorified.” (I Peter 3:14) I found myself saying, “Hallelujah! Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!”

In America, the churches sing, “Let the congregation escape tribulation”, but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, “Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?”

The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.

“When I was a little girl, ” I said, “I went to my father and said, “Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a marty for Jesus Christ.” “Tell me,” said Father, “When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before?” “No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train.” “That is right,” my father said, “and so it is with God’s strength. Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. He will supply all you need - just in time…”

My African friends were nodding and smiling. Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing, ” In the sweet, by and by, we shall meet on that beautiful shore.” Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed. I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.

But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution? First we need to feed on the word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.

Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History, but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive and sitting at the right hand of God.

We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.

In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other. But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting. The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian’s life.

Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also. But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down. Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him, for I know that to all who overcome, He shall give the crown of life. Hallelujah!

~~~~~

There are lots of interpretations,
but revelation is something else entirely!

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

From Thomas Gibson:

This dream was given to me during the 1970’s.
I cannot remember the year of this
dream, but I believe it was in the late 1970’s or early 1980’s.
It occurred during the summer.
I was in the air over Wainwright, my home town, and I could
see the downtown area.
Several things, however, were different.
I could see the clock [the clock is a two storey
high epitaph with a clock at the top on all four sides
and a plaque containing the names
of the soldiers that died in both world wars from the Wainwright area,
the streets, the sidewalks, but only two buildings.
All the other buildings were gone with only vacant lots in their place.
The two buildings were the Bank of Montreal, at the corner of the
clock, and a small old garage located at a back alley about half
a block southeast from the bank. When I awoke, the presence
of the Lord was very strong and I knew this was from the Lord.
But as I sought the Lord for a meaning, He was completely silent.
This seeking the Lord with no response went on for many days,
and into weeks. Eventually I just let the subject die with a question
about whether downtown buildings would all be removed except
for two?
From time to time over the years, I would think of this again,
and question the Lord, but still there was no answer.
It was many years later (about 10 or 15), when God brought
this back to my mind, and this time asked me what I thought about
“The Clock” it. I had no answer. What I then realized was that those
two buildings had both been demolished, but the others were still there.
The Lord then said that the reason I could only see the two buildings
was that He was highlighting these to show me that they would be removed.

[b]What He said next was most important!
He said that the reason He did it this way was to teach me [/b]
that no prophecy could be interpreted by a man, but only by God!!

I then recalled the scripture:
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is
a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made
by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke
from God. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB)

~~~~

There are lots of interpretations,
but revelation is something else entirely!

So,

Will no one share what The Lord Has Revealed unto Them?

Are we too concerned with what others might think
to share from our hearts in all this?

Are WE too mindful of the things of man
instead of being mindful of the things of God?


~~~~~~~~~~

I Wonder:

390. Prophecy given to Raymond Aguilera on 8 December 1993 at 7:24 PM. in Spanish. (Only one part presented here)

" All the world is going to change. All the world is going to go up and down. All the world is going to be frightened. But the Body Of My Son, THE ONES that love My Son, with all of their heart, with all the flame of their heart, are going to save themselves, and THE ONES who are clean and pure are going to the CLOUD with My Son. The rest, with My Scissors, I am going to clean, the Branch, and they are going to know if they love Me, My Son, and the Holy Spirit, for My Scissors aren't going to miss a thing. They are going to cut all that needs to be cut.

There are some that are going to die for My Son, and there are some that are going to save themselves for My Son. "



2 Timothy 3

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

James 5

7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

1 Peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.


2 Peter 3

3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,

Jude 1

18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their

own ungodly lusts.

Luke 21

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Revelation 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.



From Prophecy #390

"and they are going to know if they love Me, My Son, and the Holy Spirit,"



~~~~~Will we be gone or, will we be prepared, ready to be revealed in the last time.



From Prophecy #390

There are some that are going to die for My Son, and there are some that are going to save themselves for My Son.



Revelation 6

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

1 Peter 1:5

who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Timothy 3:12

Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Romans 8

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.



Acts 17

10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.


~~~~