Hey Francisco and the rest of the list,

I unfortunately must disagree with this statement. I am not being legalistic, but I am reading the Word of the Lord, Word for Word and no interpretation is needed.

Here is what the Lord our God says about this:

Deuteronomy
[6] I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of (You can put whatever sins you have been brought out of here, that is your Egypt) Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[7] Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
[8] Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
[9] Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
[10] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Verse 8 shows what the Lord says about Scapulars or anything else "graven image". "Thou shalt NOT make thee/you "ANY" graven image, or any likeness of ANYTHING that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:"

Any means ANY...Also Jesus said "Luke 14:[26] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
[27] And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

I do this not to condemn nor judge nor persecute, but out of love I show you these verses. I have no agenda and I do not hate catholics, but I do love my Lord Jesus Christ more than my own life. And if you see this as an attack then you do not accept the same spirit in which I give this to you. I send this as correction. With this you will have one of two reactions...Conviction (seeing your sin and repenting) or Anger (denying sin and not wanting to acknowledge it is so.). As I stated before brothers and sisters I do not do this out of condemnation.

And also I did not say this, Jesus said this so if you hate it then you must take this up with the Lord. Anything that makes a brother or sister stumble is sin. Praying to Mary instead of praying to Jesus who is "The Way, the Truth and the Life." Creates confusion. Jesus says,"2Tim 1:[7] For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[8] Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
[10] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
[11] Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
[12] For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Who is Paul talking about and praying to in this? Where is Mary? In all the Bible Jesus never pointed anyone to pray to Mary to be their intercessor, but only Jesus is "The Way the Truth and the Life" and you cannot reach the Father but by HIS SON!
Look closely at the Bible verse that Francisco uses here "Luke 2:25,34-35 Her heart was pierced by watching His Son being tortured and killed for our sins." If you read Luke 2:25,34-35 this is what it says, "[25] And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

[34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
[35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."

First off, Jesus is not the son of Mary but by flesh alone, the Holy Ghost is the True Spirit that put Jesus in Mary's womb, she was only a willing vessel, an honorable vessel. As all of those who Listen to the Lord and are willing to stand before this world and speak the Truth of the Word of the Lord. Mary was a conduit just as Moses was a conduit to get the people of God to the promised land. Jacob birthed a nation, Israel. Does that mean that Jacob has ownership over Israel? No, God the Father owns all things because He created ALL things. Jesus was not created in Mary's womb, He has been, IS and will be forever. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is the Beginning and the End. Read Revelation, Jesus states to John Who He IS. No where in Revelation does Jesus state anything about Mary. She may be in the cloud of witnesses, but she is one amongst many. The only intercessors are those that live today and can pray for you and Jesus Christ the advocate to the Father. The Word speaks of Jesus singing songs of deliverance over us when we worship and praise His Name. Not Mary.

As Christians we must either believe that the Bible the Word of God is ALL Truth or if one thing in the Bible is a lie even a white lie it is ALL false. Remember if your eye does evil, cut out your eye so that it doesn't make the whole body evil. Or limbs, or thoughts or whatever deceives you or attracts your attention away from Jesus Christ. Yes God is a Jealous God and He Will NOT be mocked. When you pray to Mary so that she can pray to Jesus for you, she has become your idol. Satan will tell you to pray to Mary also that it's ok because he knows that your prayers are not being heard by God. Remember, the ONLY Way to the Father is through the Son...Not through Mary to the Son then to God. Jesus is the Advocate to the Father, not Mary. Please read your Bibles and don't believe men in the pulpit, but believe every Word that proceeds out of the Mouth of God for in THAT is Life and Life more abundantly.

Remember, there will only be two responses here, conviction and anger. If anger wells up in you please examine yourself before replying to this email. For if you reply in anger nothing shall be accomplished. You MUST hate your mother, your father, your wife, your husband, your brothers and sisters and yes even his own life If not then he does not love me, nor can he be my disciple.

[26] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Only in putting Jesus Christ first and not a close second can you truly love your first love. Jesus is the First Love, not Mary. Read Revelation and see what Jesus had against the churches. Most were doing everything right, but they had left their first Love (Jesus Christ). Do not let tradition blind you from the Truth. I know I am not perfect, but I know Jesus who is perfect even unto death and then unto the resurrection. He is the ONLY Way, He is the Only Truth, and He is the Only Life. It is not I, but Christ who lives within me. I decrease that Jesus may increase in me. If you know not Jesus then you know not the Father (ABBA).

Please I exhort you to search the Word, not your pastors/priests understanding. Know that I do not do this out of hate, but of Love. I do this in the Love of the Father. I am not exalting myself or my knowledge or my wisdom or my understanding, but I am exalting the Most High God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Son of man, and the Most Holy of Spirits the Holy Ghost. The Triune God-head. Three in One. We are all vessels, some are honorable, some are dishonorable. Those that are honorable God uses to promote His Master Plan. Those that are dishonorable He uses to create trials and tribulations and persecutions to strengthen our belief and faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I have not gone through persecutions like Paul did or Jesus for that matter so my faith has not been tested like theirs were, but Jesus nor Paul pointed us to Mary. Neither did Peter, Matthew, Luke, John, and Mark. If they did not then how can we without the signs and wonders following our works call them false? Yes Mary birthed Jesus, but only through the guidance of the Holy Ghost, only through the Word of God. Who is this Word of God? Jesus told Mary that she would conceive a child, a son, and call Him Emmanuel, Jesus, the Messiah, the Chosen One of God, the Light of the World, the Prince of Peace, King of kings, Lord of lords, God of gods.

"Matthew 12:48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother"."

God's Chosen One: spoken of by Isaiah

Matthew 12:18 "Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19 He will not quarrel or cry out;
no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he leads justice to victory.
21 In his name the nations will put their hope."

Isn't that an awesome verse? Matthew 12:21 "In HIS Name the nations will put their hope." Their hope is not in Mary. Their hope is in the Word of God, Jesus Christ.
When called to the banquet I will sit in a seat far from the main table. Because I know I am unworthy to unlatch even His Sandals. If He, Jesus wants to exalt whom He will, then He shall do so. I know He calls us all friends, but I say I am a bond servant of Christ Jesus. I am His Slave. I am His Dog. I will lap up the scraps that fall from the Masters table. And until He finds me worthy to sit at His Table, I shall be grateful to get scraps. His Word, Jesus states that no graven image is to be made of anything in heaven or in earth. I shall do my best to comply with this message, no this Commandment. God doesn't negotiate, He Commands us to be Obedient. God does not debate His Own Word. He Knows His Word and what it says. Satan is the great debater. If you want to debate the Word of God with Lucifer then know this you will lose, in your own strength, knowledge, wisdom and understanding. Without Jesus we are nothing. Apart from the Vine we are nothing. Satan has nothing in Jesus. Satan is apart from the Vine.

Remember the Lord's prayer that he encouraged us to pray?

Our Father,
Who art in heaven
Hallowed be thy Name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into Temptation
But deliver us from evil
For thou art kingdom and the power and the glory
Forever and ever. Amen!

Where in there are we pointed to pray to Mary? The first line speaks to whom we pray and that is to our Father who is in heaven and His Son is at His Right Hand. Not Mary. The Father's Name is Hallowed. Not Mary's. Jesus never pointed to anything else but the Father nor did He take any advice from anyone else but the Father. If Jesus is our example which He is then we should pray to no other but to Him to reach the Father. For Jesus is the ONLY Way to the Father. "There is no other way to the Father but by Me."

John 17:24-26 "[24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
[25] O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
[26] And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

Who is Jesus praying to here? ABBA. No where in Scripture does Jesus ever pray to Mary to gain the favor of God nor does He ever pray to Mary for anything, but ONLY to the Father for healing the sick, casting out demons and then He thanks God the Father for allowing these things to transpire.
Please do not get me wrong, I am thankful that Mary was obedient to the Will of God. But can I tell you this, that I am much more thankful that Jesus Christ endured all the pain, suffering, condemnation, trials, tribulations and my sin upon His Body for me so that I am made clean and white as snow in the Father's sight. I have found favor in the Father's sight ONLY through the Love of the Son crucifying himself on the cross for yours and my sins. So that not the world, but those He has chosen may be saved.
Mary, may have been pierced in the heart by the Son suffering and being beaten and hung on a Cross, but do you see the Heart of God and how His Heart suffers for us? Does not God's Heart break every time we disobey His Word (Jesus Christ)? Mary's heart does not break anymore, she is past from this world to the next and is in Paradise with the Lord, not her son anymore, but she dwells with the Son of man, the Son of God, the Word which was, is and will be forever and ever. She is with the Prince of Peace, the Everlasting Glory, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

God Almighty has only exalted One person to His Right Hand and that person is the Lord Jesus Christ and no other sits on His Right Hand. Yes we are brothers and sisters with Christ Jesus and yes we are joint heirs to the throne but only because of what Jesus has done for us not for what Mary did even tho that was in the Provisional Will of God.
Forgive me for the length of this letter, but I felt led to put all of this down both chapter and verse. I do not stand on one line here or there of the Word of God, but on EVERY Word that proceeds out of the Mouth of God. For it is His Word and not mine that brings life. My words only bring death. I depend upon Jesus and pray that I decrease so that He may increase in me. I also pray that we all will follow Jesus as our example and put know other before Him. Yes, He is a Jealous God, "Do not tempt the Lord thy God."

May God Keep you Always in the Blood of the Lamb, Know that I love you and do this in love and not of myself, but through Jesus' Love for you and I,

Tristan

A bondservant in Christ Jesus

P.S. I will post this on ProphecyLink.com to be discussed in more detail there if needed.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:06:04 -0700
From: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Subject: [Prophecy] Fw: Scapulars are NOT evil...
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----- Original Message -----
From: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ' rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
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Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Scapulars are NOT evil...


Hello Ray,

Would you please forward this message instead of the previous one I e-mailed you (the previous one does not have the subject, this one has) to my brothers from your 'Archive List'.

Thank you.

God Bless you.

Francisco.

---------------------------

Is Our Father is a jealous God? Yes indeed; however, would God be jealous when someone is honoring Him from the heart through an image of Himself?....

It’s clear to me that God is jealous of images of ‘false’ gods, gods that are NOT related to Him in anyway.

Would a man be jealous of his woman when she makes a painting of him or when she makes a painting of another man? If a woman makes a painting of his husband it demonstrates in a special way how she loves him.

‘"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you." ‘

(Luke 9: 49-50)

This passage says it all!

Mary is NOT against Jesus,

She is Blessed among all women by God.

She is the first Christian.

She was there for Jesus before the Immaculate Conception.

She was there for Jesus at His birth.

She was there for Jesus at His death.

Her heart was pierced by watching His Son being tortured and killed because of our sins (as prophesized).
(Luke 2:25.34-35)

She was there to know that His Son and our Savior has resurrected.

She was there with the apostles when they all received the Holy Spirit Which appeared as flames over their head.

Bottom line, Mary is WITH Jesus and Jesus is with Her. No wonder Jesus entrusted His Mother to his disciple before He died on the cross, if He did so, it is because we (His disciples) may need Her intersession. He also told Mary, behold your son (meaning his disciple), so Mary has a role of Mother for us too.

The fifth Commandment says, “Honor your father and your mother†and what a great way to start by honoring the Father of our Lord Jesus (Holy Spirit) and His Mother (Mary).

To me, there is nothing wrong with going to Jesus through Mary. If some people think that they don’t need Mary to get to Jesus, that’s fine too, as long as they do it from the heart.

Let’s stop this useless accusing and fighting between Christians about of who’s right or wrong, if we go to Jesus and practice the Love He taught us, we are in the right track.

Remember Jesus words again:

"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for youâ€

God Bless you all!

PS: To Me, going to Jesus through Mary is faster and more direct; however, I understand that other Christians don’t think so and Love Jesus too; we both, God’s willing, will meet in Heaven as long as we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE HIM and show that LOVE by serving Him regardless of our different ways.

774. Prophecy given to Raymond Aguilera on 13 July 1995 at 7:47 PM.


Beware My Christians for there is a counterfeit Mary. Beware My Christians. Listen to My Words and only My Words. For the devil has a counterfeit. Listen to the Words of Jehovah God for He speaks the TRUTH! (over)

some say , sence their is a counterfit , then there is also a real mary , thinking to point out that the mary that apeared to some is real , while there is a mary that is counterfit that also apears here and there.

I dont believe thats what the Lord is saying here. But the one who has been apearing to men , or here or there , is the counterfit . And that the real mary is in heaven and has apeared or spoken to noone , for she is dead. But those who need to hear it most will never believe that.

The real Mary is in Heaven , shes Dead! The counterfit is the one who apears to men, and here and there.

i agree with you st.joel
yours in christ mark

Yes indeed! So remember that enemy can change to be a angel of light!
Some prophecies of Mary that I read, the center is Mary because she should mencionate to Jesus, the Glory is for Jesus, not for mary, mary can't do the Work of God, because Jehovah, Jesus and Holy Spirit are God.
In another prophecy of Mary indicate dates (of the end of times) nobody knows the moment, only Father Jehovah God.
In another prophecy, Mary begins telling: Praise Jesus!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd Corinthians 11.14:
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
1 John 4.1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
http://www.prophecy.org/0034pro.htm (about of spirit test)
http://www.prophecy.org/0440pro.htm (advertance about deceiving spirits)

The following compiled article will most certainly result in a very large numbers of Catholics to Nash their teeth upon me. They will cover their ears, and close their eyes, and will run as fast as they can away screaming, from what they believe is this Heresy. And others will run at me with the intend to trample, and destroy me for saying these words. So be it. Yet there will be some, a few who will recognize this as the truth, they will go direct to God about it, and then will leave the Idolatry which is in their church.

Rev, Jack Barr



About The Virgin Mary

Compiled by Rev. Jack Barr

[b]The Immaculate Conception [/b] proclaimed by the Church in 1854. That Mary was born without original sin. This is based on her being chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus. This idea was rejected by Thomas Aquinas who argued vehemently against the popular conviction that the merciful Madonna was born without the taint of original sin.

The Bible does not teach this Immaculate Conception, the Apostles did not teach this, and the Early Church Fathers, the ones who personally knew both the Apostles and Mary, never taught this.

[b]Virgin Birth;[/b] A teaching that arose in the 2nd century in a book called "Protoevangelium of St. James.". While the Bible teaches that Jesus would be born to a virgin, nowhere in the Bible does the term "virgin birth" appear. However, All Christians accept the term. The truth is, according to the Bible, that Mary was a Virgin at the time of the birth of Jesus.

[b]Perpetual virginity;[/b] It is claimed by the church that Mary remained a virgin all of her life. This is a teaching that directly contradicts the teaching of the Bible. Their claim that the term "brothers" either means the children of Joseph by a previous marriage or else it means a cousin, neighbor, any man in the village or nation. While the definition of "brothers" could mean that as well as a blood brother, the term also used along with it is "sisters" and that word in the Greek is Only used of a Blood Relative, and never of anyone else. So we see by the Bible that Mary Did have additional children and so did not remain a virgin all of her life. There is another verse. Mat. 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and called his name JESUS." There are 2 things here. First: Knew her not till .. .. A search of the bible will show that the Biblical meaning of "know her" is to have intercourse, this verse says that Joseph had intercourse with Mary only after the birth of Jesus, but not before. Second; the term used here, "firstborn" clearly says that it is the first of more than one. Either would show that Mary did not remain a virgin even if the Bible had not also named his brothers and said that he also had sisters.

The Bible does not teach this Perpetual Virginity, the Apostles did not teach this, and the Early Church Fathers, the ones who personally knew both the Apostles and Mary, never taught this.

Stay with the truth of the Bible. Who better knew the truth on this than the Apostles.

[b]Assumption of Mary;[/b] The belief by many Catholics that Mary was taken up to heaven bodily. By the 1860's many were petitioning that this belief be stated as a dogma -- something that must be believed. The church was at first reluctant to do so because there is no evidence for such a teaching, either in the New Testament, or in early church history. In 1950 Pope Pius XII finally confirmed the dogma leaving open the question as to whether she had died first. (Compton's Encyclopedia)

This has been an explicit belief for at least 1500 years being stated by St. Juvenal of Jerusalem (Bishop of Jerusalem) at the council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. The claim is that the feast was already celebrated in the east in that century.

However, This St. Juvenal was known by his peers as a Liar who would twist history to his advantage. (From a letter in the writings of the Early Church Fathers) In looking over all of the Canons of all the councils including the Council of Chalcedon in 451, there is not one mention, or writing, or acknowledgment, of her assumption as shown above.

There are two other points; First, I have a Catholic Bible with notes in it that states that they are not sure where Mary died. It could have been either at Ephesus or Jerusalem. And if they do not know where she died, then they do not know When she died, So how could they know that she was assumed into heaven, when they do not even know these two basic facts?

Second: Her tomb is not mentioned as being in Jerusalem until the beginning of the 5th century.

Now we must think of this: When Jesus' assumption happened, the entire Christian world knew about it from the eye witnesses within months, it is recorded in the Bible. It seems that when Mary died, there was no record kept by anyone of when, or where, she died, or was buried. If there was nothing written down or passed down orally, then how could a man 350 + years later have known about it??? None of the Apostles wrote, or taught about it. None of the Early Church Fathers in the first hundred years wrote, or taught it.

By all of the evidence, the Assumption of Mary never took place. Instead it is the fertile imagination of someone, and many jumped on the band wagon because they just wanted to believe the lie. As you can see above, [b]even the Church itself resisted the teaching for almost 1500 years.[/b]

Remember to test the spirits, do not accept everything any priest, minister, rabbi, etc. Says at face value.

[b]Medjugorje, Yugoslavia,[/b] The location of an appearance of what appears or is reported to be the Virgin Mother Mary. This is only one of many. And yes there are signs and wonders, but remember that the Bible warns us that Satan will come as an angel of light with signs and wonders to deceive the elect if possible. In reading about this event, the reports of what the supposed Mary was saying was very disturbing. Like her telling everyone that they should have a Sacred Object in their homes. Now a Sacred Object is an object that you Worship. God said that we were forbidden to worship anyone or anything except HIM. If that apparition was from God and Heaven, it would not have even suggested worshipping anything except God Himself. That alone showed it to be false. There were other points as well that I will not go into here.

The Bible tells us that salvation is only through Jesus Christ. You can not even get to heaven through God the Father because He put all things under the feet of Jesus until Jesus has defeated His last enemy. Even the Old Testament Saints could not enter heaven until Jesus died and rose again from the dead.

To believe and pray to Mary, or any other dead person, instead of to Jesus, or the Father, or Holy Spirit, is an Insult to God. The Bible forbids praying to Any dead person as being an abomination to God.

[b]Title Queen of Heaven given to Mary[/b]
The Claim of the Catholic Church is that the body of Mary was miraculously preserved from corruption and after being united to her immaculate soul, was carried by angels into heaven. Claim that upon her assumption into heaven our blessed mother was received by her son and crowned as Queen of Heaven in the presence of the angelic choirs and all the saints.

Now I believe that we have shown above that the assumption of Mary never occurred, and even if it did, how would any one know what happened to her in heaven? They would have to claim that God gave them a vision. Now God does give us visions, but, would God give a vision of an event that happened in the past to anyone when that event never really happened? I think not because God is not a liar. But Satan would. Now just where would Satan enter this picture?

[b]a fuller explanation about the term "Queen of Heaven" [/b]

On examination of the Bible, we find that the term "Queen of Heaven" is ALWAYS associated with IDOLATRY. Therefore, to give the name "Queen of Heaven" to Mary the mother of Jesus is an insult to her. But, I can see Satan, when leading men to worship Mary, which is idolatry, even told those who would worship her as the Queen of Heaven, that they would be committing idolatry by worshipping her. See below for only a small part of what in on my web page.

[b]Cults[/b]

[b]Queen of Heaven[/b]

The term ‘‘Queen of Heaven’’ is unknown to most people, and of those who have heard the term, few of them know who or what it refers to. This is a Satanic cult or practice that crept into many religions around the world, including some of the Christian churches. The easiest way to explain it is to quote from other books:
===============================

Secular history and tradition tell us that Nimrod married a woman who was as evil and demonic as himself. Her name was Semerimus. Knowing God’s promise of a future Savior (Gen. 3:15), Semerimus brazenly claimed that Tammuz, her first son, fulfilled this prophecy.

Semerimus thereupon instituted a religious system which made both her and her son the objects of divine worship. She herself became the first high priestess. Thus began the Mother-child cult which later spread all over the world. The city of Babylon was the seat of Satan worship until it fell, in 539 BC, to the Persians.

1. From Babylon it spread to Phoenicia under the name of Ashteroth and Tammuz.
2. From Phoenicia it traveled to Pergamos in Asia Minor. This is the reason for John’s admonition to the church at Pergamos in the book of Revelation: ‘‘I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is’’ (Rev. 2:13).
3. In Egypt the mother-child cult was known as Isia and Horus.
4. In Greece it became Aphrodite and Eros.
5. In Rome this pair was worshipped as Venus and cupid.
6. In China it became known as Mother Shing Moo and her child.
7. In Mexico an image was found and authenticated as belonging to the period about 200 years before Christ, where it was the center of religious worship among some of the early Indians in Mexico. The image was of a mother with a child in her arms.

[b]The teachings of Semerimus’ satanic church (mother-child).[/b]

1. That Semerimus herself was the way to God. She actually adopted the title ‘‘Queen of Heaven’’.
2. That she alone could administer salvation to the sinner through various sacraments, such as the sprinkling of holy water.
3. That her son Tammuz was tragically slain by a wild boar during a hunting trip.
4. That he was, however, resurrected from the dead forty days later. Thus, each year afterward, the temple virgins of this cult would enter a forty-day fast as a memorial to Tammuz’ death and resurrection.
5. After the forty-day fast, a joyful feast called Ishtar took place. At this feast colored eggs were exchanged Our Easter tradition and eaten as a symbol of the resurrection. An evergreen tree was displayed and a Yule log was burned Our Christmas tradition. Finally, hot cakes marked with the letter T (to remind everybody of Tammuz) were baked and eaten Our yearly Hot Cross buns during the lent season.

About 2000 BC, God called Abraham away from all this (see Josh. 24:2-3) and led him into the promised land, but by 850 BC Israel had returned to this devil worship under the influence of wicked Jezebel (1 Kings 16:30-33). At this time the cult was worshipped under the name of Baal.

[b]Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah warned against this hellish thing.[/b]

1. Ezek. 8:14 ....there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
2. Jer. 7:18 .....and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven.
3. Jer. 44:25 .... to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to her.

By the time of Christ, this cult had so influenced Roman life that the Caesars were not only crowned as emperors of Rome, but also bore the title Pontifex Maximus, meaning, ‘‘high priest’’. They were high priest of the Babylonian satanic church.

During AD 306, A Roman Emperor named Constantine, was threatened by a very powerful enemy army. Realizing that his uneasy troops needed confidence, Constantine claimed to have seen a vision on the eve of battle. He saw a large blue flag with a red cross on it and heard a mighty voice which said, In hoc signo vinces --- ‘‘In this sign conquer.’’ He thereupon marched his troops into a shallow river, claimed them to be officially baptized, and ordered the sign of the cross painted on all his weapons. Thus inspired, he led his troops to victory and subsequently made Christianity the state religion of Rome.

The Roman priests of Tammuz soon discovered that they could easily make the transition into Christianity (with certain changes) and thereupon carried their traditions forward without interruption by promoting the Madonna-Child worship concept, the holy water sacrament, etc.

For nearly 300 years the devil had attempted to destroy the church from outside by his terrible persecutions. But with the advent of Constantine he changed his tactics, walking the aisle to work from within. The corrupted church was already flourishing in Christ’s day and the Savior delivered a scathing attack against some of its very deacons and elders (Matt. 23)
(From Wilmington's Guide to the Bible pp. 570-571)
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[b]Queen of Heaven[/b] (Heb. melekheth ha-sha-mayim). Some controversy surrounds the philology and significance of this title, but it seems best to regard it as the female deity to whom, with their families’ aid and connivance, Hebrew women made offerings (Jer 7:18; 44:17-25). The most likely identification is with Ashtoreth, goddess of love and fertility, synonymous with the Assyrian and Babylonian Istar, and the Roman Venus. The ‘‘wailing for Tammuz’’ was associated with her cult (Ezek. 8:14). Its ritual was the license and obscenity characteristic of the eastern fertility cults, ever a temptation to the Hebrews, and the chief objective of the prophets’ attack on paganism.
(from The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary)
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1. There is no scriptural record of idolatry before the Flood.
2. Shortly after the flood and probably in connection with the daring scheme of the Babel tower of Genesis 2, appears the earliest historical record we have of idolatry. ‘‘The discoveries of Nineveh and Babylon reveal that a secret organization of unbelievers was formed soon after the death of Nimrod (Gen. 10), at a time when open apostasy was dangerous, and that its members established their headquarters at Babylon. From this center they labored with ceaseless activity to confuse and destroy the knowledge of Jehovah in the world and to bring men under the yoke of demon gods. They soon became a powerful and influential body continuing to be a secret society, not wishing to share their power and privileges with any but those willing to pass through the ordeal of initiation, which included a baptism, after which the initite was termed twice-born or regenerate (greek diphyees), and worship was originally offered to a trinity consisting of father, mother and son. But the first person was very commonly confused with the third, and at last almost forgotten; so that the prominent deities were the mother and son. Of these the former was by far the most popular and has been known according to time and place as Queen of Heaven, Mother of the gods, Mylitta, Astarte, Diana of Ephesus, Aphrodite, Venus, Isis and the Blessed Virgin’’ (from; Pember -- ‘‘Great Prophecies’’)
(From The Book of Revelation, by William R. Newell, page 274)

From ‘‘beyond the river’’ (Euphrates) --that is, from Mesopotamia, more particularly from Babel (later Babylon), and still more definitely from the daring acts of Nimrod, the ‘‘mighty destroyer’’ whose wife, Semiramis, (one of the most able and wicked women of the human race) was, upon her death deified as ‘‘Queen of Heaven’’, do we trace the beginnings of idolatry, which eventuates in Satan-worship.
(From The Book of Revelation, by William R. Newell, page 375)


And Now The Worst of All!

[b]The Worship, or veneration, of Mary [/b]

The Worship of Mary has been pushed by the RC Church for a long, long time. Its leaders say that we are to worship Mary and the Saints. But they say that the worship of Mary is not the same degree as the worship we give Jesus. To those who object they say, "we don't worship Mary, we only venerate Mary." If you look up both words you will find that each one is a synonym for the other. Both words means Worship.

Now God did not say that we could worship something else as long as we worshipped Him more. He said "Thou Shall Not Worship...." and "I am a Jealous God..." God has made no exceptions. Look up in the dictionaries and encyclopedias what acts indicate worship.

The burning of candles before statues or pictures, the kissing of an object, etc. These are all done and yet they say "I am not worshipping, only showing respect." The rest of the world looks on and says "Ya, sure you are. Ha Ha Wink Wink".

And what has this led to?

There was published in the newspaper on August 30, 1997 and in News Week magazine of August 25, 1997 the following composite article.

[b]New role sought for Mary[/b]

[b]Pope has been petitioned to name her Co-Redeemer [/b]

This week a large box shipped from California and addressed to "His Holiness, John Paul II" will arrive at the Vatican. The shipping label lists a dozen countries -- from every continent but Antarctica -- plus a number, 40,383, indicating the quantity of signatures inside. Each signature is attached to a petition asking the pope to exercise the power of papal infallibility to proclaim a new dogma of the Roman Catholic faith: that the Virgin Mary is "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate for the People of God."

Such a move would elevate Mary's status dramatically beyond what most Christians profess. But in the last four years, the pope has received 4,340,429 signatures from 157 countries -- an average of 100,000 a month -- supporting the proposed dogma. Among the notable supporters are Mother Teresa of Calcutta, nearly 500 bishops and 42 cardinals, including John O'Connor of New York, Joseph Glemp of Poland and half a dozen cardinals at the Vatican itself.

If the drive succeeds, Catholics would be obliged as a mater of faith to accept three extraordinary doctrines:

1. That Mary participates in the redemption achieved by her son.
2. That all graces that flow from the suffering and death of Jesus Christ are granted only through Mary's intercession with her son.
3. And that all prayers and petitions from the faithful on earth must likewise flow through Mary, who then brings them to the attention of Jesus.

This is what theologians call high Mariology, and it seems to contradict the basic New Testament belief that "there is one God and one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus." (I Timothy 2:5)

In place of the Holy Trinity, it would appear, there would be a kind of Holy Quartet, with Mary playing the multiple roles of daughter of the Father, mother of the Son and Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

The pope seems predisposed to this idea based on his choice of words in recent speeches. He is deeply devoted to Mary.

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To declare Mary as a co-redeemer would make her equal to God.
To declare that it is only through Mary that you can receive the grace of salvation declares all that Jesus did on the cross is null and void and of no use.
To declare that you can Only pray to Jesus, or God, through her makes her above God.

The result is that you can [b]only gain salvation [/b]if you worship Mary who has control of what prayers from whom can, or will, reach God. This rejects Everything the Bible teaches making the Bible a lie. Makes Satan Happy doesn't it. Gets all those people to break the first and second commandments of God and solid into idolatry.

There is much more but this will point you on to the right track.

Is this saying that no Catholic will get into heaven? No, it does not, and I am not saying that. There will always be some who will keep their eyes on Jesus, and therefore not fall into the trap of idolatry.

Follow only Jesus Christ. Pray to, and worship, only God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit. You will never go wrong this way, for ALL Idolatry incorporates praying to, and worshipping anything other than God.

Rev. Jack Barr

Rev Barr,

I for oe, will throw my hat in the ring on your side, the side of truth. I do think it is nearly unbeleivable that lots of people place or want to place Mary on the same level as Jesus.

This info is amazing. When I studied this, I would always get bits and pieces, but never as cohesive as this. May I copy this for myself?
I have read some info about the three secrets of fatima. IS this all connected with the attempt to make mary divine, AND do you have any articles or further links I could peruse?


Maranatha

Monique

Larry and those that are defending the faith,

If the Pope and the Bishops the only ones that can interpret the Bible or the Word then you will also believe this. The Anglican Committee got together, this includes the heads of the Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, and many other churches. Do you know what their understanding, or interpretation of the Word of God was? May God save them from the Day of the Lord, because they say that homosexuality in the Eye’s of God is not a sin. I’m currently trying to find this article again that I read. One of the “Rev’s” was Mr. McDowell. Some of the statements in this article were appalling. I specifically remember God in the Bible speaking to Sodom and Gomorrah that because of their wickedness, (ie. Men knowing men and lying with them and women doing the same as some of the most explicit sins of those cities.) they were destroyed and stricken from the history books as a thriving city…Instead they are the name that now condemns many cities by the Voice of God.

If the Catholics and Episcopalians and other churches are accepting Blind leaders into their midst then only one thing can come of it. Luke 6:39 specifically speaks to this problem. If sin makes you blind, (ie. Pride before the fall.) then blind leaders leading blind or lost church members shall they not fall into a ditch? Remember a nation and a church is judged by it’s leadership. This is to appeal to the Catholics that put so much faith in the interpretation of men. Yes the Pope is just a man, not God. Because He is God and we are not.

Here’s my question then. If the Pope and the Bishops feel and believe the same way as the Anglican Committee made judgments upon this statement and accepted it, that homosexuality is not a sin in the Eye’s of God. Then is it not safe to say that other choices and interpretations and understandings may also be skewed? ie. Scapulars, graven images, and other things that have been stated in these statements about Catholicism. Remember I used to be an Episcopal so the Protestant verse of Catholicism. They just don’t do confessing to a priest. They also recognize that divorce is ok. Now I used to be an Episcopal because of many things, but the biggest thing that the Lord lead me out of the church for was the making of the Bishop of an openly gay man. The blind cannot lead the blind, but only into a ditch.

I am not trying to just punch holes into this argument, but I am trying to get us all to realize the dangers of believing so blindly that a man even if he has the name of President, Pope, King, Ruler, Despot, whatever. He/She is just, I say JUST a man or woman. It is not my intention to dishonor him/her, nor demoralize him/her, but it is my intention to tell the Truth which is NOT to put our trust or faith in men, but in God alone who has our own interests at heart and wants only the best for us in all that He does for us. I pray that this concludes this discussion until we have all examined ourselves and see why we believe what we believe. Why we strive against other men for our beliefs but there are so many that disagree with these beliefs or opinions. It is not to question our faith in Jesus, but to strengthen it. Steel/Iron sharpens Steel/Iron.

I have been told by those that attend the Episcopal church that I used to attend that the Bible is a good story and is not infallible. And one lady told me she surprised God in making a totally different decision that the one the Lord was telling her to make. Is this not an example of the Blind leading the blind? These are those that go to this church and many believe like this in the Episcopal Church. If they didn’t believe like this then they would had stated in the Committee that homosexuality is not only a sin unto God, but He specifically calls it an Abomination unto God. There IS no interpretation that can state that homosexuality is anything but an Abomination.

Abomination:
Main Entry: abom•i•na•tion
Pronunciation: &-"bä-m&-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : something abominable
2 : extreme disgust and hatred : LOATHING

Abominable:
Main Entry: abom•i•na•ble
Pronunciation: &-'bäm-n&-b&l, -'bä-m&-
Function: adjective
1 : worthy of or causing disgust or hatred : DETESTABLE <the abominable treatment of the poor>
2 : quite disagreeable or unpleasant <abominable weather>
- abom•i•na•bly /-blE/ adverb

Ok so now I point back to our original discussion in which I was told that only the “Heads of the Church” are the only acceptable interpretation. This may be and probably is the Provisional view of God, but with the sin of man He has allowed in His Permissive Will that the interpretations and visions and dreams and prophesying are done by Jews and Gentiles alike, leaders and regular people (Laity) also. If it was God’s Provisional Will the Jews would be His People and people after His Own Heart, but they are not…they are also blind leading the blind because they will not accept that Jesus is more than a Prophet that He is the Son of God and He sits at the Right Hand of God. But we are all living in the Permissive Will of God, but know that God is in control and that He has all things under control. For all things were created by Him and nothing was created without Him.

May God Bless and Keep you Always in the Blood of the Lamb,

Tristan

P.S. Just wanted to restate that I love all of you my brothers and sisters and this is not in condemnation but in encouragement to truly sift the wheat from the tares in the Bible and not trust upon the ideologies, theologies and wisdom and understandings of man…But of God alone depending upon Him for all things for this is good and profitable to us all. With all my heart I implore you to search the scripture not to just argue the Word, but to prove it True. Because remember there have been many Atheists, Scientists and other well studied and intelligent people that have disagreed with the Bible and gone to prove it wrong and have by their own admittance proved the Bible True. The Bible IS the Word of God or you could say the Bible is Jesus Christ Himself revealed to us through the Holy Ghost/Spirit. God inspired and not man inspired. 2 Peter speaks to this and he is an Apostle of God…if You believe the Saints as the foundations of the “Church” then see this Scripture. 2nd Peter chapter 1:16 “[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” Love you all!

Luke 11:27-28

-
Noah Kinderknecht

One more verse concerning Jesus' brothers and sisters Rev. Barr. mentioned here in his previous post:


In Mark 6:1-4
[1] And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
[2] And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
[3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
[4] But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Yours in Christ,
Stephanie