What do you believe as a Christian, an Atheist or inbetween somewhere? Do you believe that God created the earth in 6 literal days and that the Word of God is truly the Infalliable Word of God, or did God do something inbetween Genesis 1:1 & 1:2, or did we all come from rocks, soup and apes?

Please let me know what you believe and this is a friendly discussion, please do not demean or spread lies either about a person or an idea. And please back up your knowledge and understanding with Biblical Scripture, if you are a Christian and then use Science to back up Evolutionary theory (And here if you fight for Evolution please tell us which part of Evolution you believe in...Cosmic, Stellar, Chemical, Organic, Macro-Evolution, and Micro-Evolution).

This is a rejection of ideas proposed on the website: http://heart4god.ws/id313.htm

He states:
Genesis 1:1-2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

KJV

All of the most popular English translations render this passage similarly, but they have borrowed from each other and have duplicated one another’s mistakes. The rendering here makes it sound like God created the earth formless and void, yet other Scriptures reveal that this is not true. God did not create the earth formless and void.

The phrase "And the earth was without form and void" should be properly rendered, "but the earth became formless and void". The words in question are rendered correctly in other places in the first few chapters of Genesis, so the translators knew they could be rendered this way, but it did not fit with their understanding, or the orthodoxy of the day. The word rendered in the KJV as "was" is the Hebrew word "hayah" and it is the same word used in the Genesis 2:7, "Adam became a living soul." Strong’s concordance identifies the meaning of this word as "to become" or, "come to pass". Similarly the word rendered "and" is the Hebrew "wa" and it is a conjunction that is often rendered "but". The KJV translators rendered this word as “but” in the very next chapter, for in Genesis 2:6 we read, "but a mist used to..."

So we can see that the translators could have as easily rendered these beginning verses in this manner:

Genesis 1:1-2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 But the earth became formless, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

This would indicate that in the beginning of creation the Father created the heavens and the earth, but something occurred after this creation that made the earth formless, void, and covered with darkness. We have seen that we can interpret these words this way, but we must ask if we should interpret them this way. We can verify conclusively that this is how this Scripture should be rendered by comparing this passage with others. If we can find similar descriptions in other Scriptures of the earth becoming formless, void and covered in darkness as a result of judgment, then we will know the earth was not created this way, it became this way as a result of sin. The following passage from Jeremiah provides a real key for our understanding. As you read it, note clearly that everything about this passage is speaking of the judgment of God being manifested due to the presence of sin and rebellion.
Disputed verses:

Hebrews11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith being described in Genesis 1:1-2 is set in Hebrews 11. The universe was formed at God’s command. Nothing was formed before Genesis 1:2 because God did not command anything yet. The earth was created from faith which is to us nothing there. But it is just invisible to us. Formless or without form or void (empty). The waters of the deep. Or the face of the deep (or waters). Psalms 29:3 The voice of the LORD is upon the waters. The God of glory thundereth: The LORD is upon many waters.

I do not know how it works, but this describes that God the Lord is upon many waters. Now if you look at Genesis 1:2 it makes sense when there is no form or formless or without form and void, empty, nothing there (physically). But the Spirit of God moves upon the waters, which is to say the Voice of the Lord is upon the waters, or moves upon the waters. Maybe waters is faith in the Spiritual world? We are baptized in the Spirit. So faith through water baptizes us in the Spirit. So there must be water somewhere maybe we cannot see it like we can’t see faith.

If you read Genesis 1 you’ll see that there was waters above the firmament of which the birds flew in this firmament so it wasn’t ground or dirt. And the waters were above and below this firmament. Now with the floods we lost that shielding water and the fountains of the deep busted up out of the ground.

Take a look at it yourself and let Scripture back up Scripture or steel sharpen steel.

So far this sounds like the GAP theory to me trying to fit Millions or Billions of years inbetween Genesis 1:1 & 2. Which if you believe that God’s Word is Infalliable and True then how can Satan be made/created and be in the Garden and God call it “Very good” in Genesis 1:31 after Satan was created and before God rested on the 7th day. So how could Satan fall inbetween Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 if at Genesis 1:31 what God saw was “Very good”. Satan was created during the 6 days of creation.

Hi All on the list,

I wanted to pose a question and see what you as being apart of this prophecy list has to say about it. What do you believe about Christianity.

Ok here's the question:

Being a Christian, what do you believe about the Bible?

Do you believe that God made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th? (Creationist, most widely accepted)
Or do you believe that their's a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? (This is the "Gap theory" to try to work with the Evolution theory of the earth being millions and billions of years old...approx 4.6 billion as of today's Evolutionary understanding...)
Or do you believe that God made the earth over 6 God days? ("The days of God are like a thousand years to man, and a thousand years are like one day." - paraphrased)
Or do you believe something completely different or somewhere in the middle?

Now, I ask this not just for these sets of questions, but I ask that you back up your version with Biblical Scripture and not just telling me what you believe, but I want you to show me why you believe that way.

May God bless you all in your understanding of the Word of God, for the Word is Jesus Christ and we must get to know Him. I leave this with you, ponder, read the Word and meditate upon your answer before answering.

Answer for yourself:
Why?
When?
How?
Where?
What?

These are some good places to start! Love you all! Also if you'd like to see a really good and solid version of this check out www.drdino.com and the Download page and check out "The Garden of Eden". If you are stuck and need help it's a good resource.

a brother and servant of the Lord Jesus the Christ, the Nazarene, our Lord and Saviour and Lamb,

Tristan

Another problem with http://heart4god.ws/id313.htm , http://heart4god.ws/id314.htm

Is that the most widely accepted version of the Bible has been and still is the KJV. NIV, New American Standard are others, but they have been "corrected" to fend off Evolutionary theory and it's supposed proof through Science that most Christians don't know how to defend against...So they added and changed God's Word. The New American Standard is said to be the closest translation to the original Hebrew and Greek texts. However, why the change from a definitive article "the" to an indefinite article "a" in the Creation story?

All Bibles from KJV and back have had the Definitive "the first day...the second day..." etc... for the Creation story. So this shows a literal 6 days creation. The indefinite article "a" shown in NIV and New American Standard shows "...,one day...a second day..." etc...This shows that it's trying to accomodate what the Evolutionary theory tries to make us believe that the world is billions and billions of years old. Christians had put up no defense because they had been cow-towed into having to accept Evolution as a "fact" and it isn't even proven as a Hypothesis or a theory yet!

Evolution is not science, it is a religion. A secular religion that has no basis of fact or scientific backing.

Evolutionary theory: The 6 kinds.
Cosmic Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Evolution
Stellar Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Evolution
Chemical Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Evolution
Organic Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_evolution
Macro-Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro-evolution
Micro-Evolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-evolution

The only evidence that they have is that of "Micro-Evolution" which I and other Creationists can believe. Example: a wolf could be a common ancestor of a dog. They are both dogs. There are small and huge dogs, but they are all dogs. There are small and huge horses too, but they are still horses.

There is no evidence of a Horse changing into a lizard, or a bird. There is no evidence of a dog turning into a cat.

God said, that each animal would produce after it's own kind. A horse produces a horse (big or small or inbetween).

Check out www.drdino.com and the Downloads website it makes this plain as day and scientifically shows it to be true. So you don't need to believe Evolutionary theory which has not and never will be proven except through hoaxes and saying an ape is a man or a man is an ape from bones they found.

It's worth your time as a Christian to check out this site and see the results. Study your Bible and go along in your Bible while Kent Hovind is giving you this information. Do your own research. I have and it makes complete sense.

If the world was created, then destroyed and then created again or something happened inbetween Gen 1:1 & 1:2 then explain this:

Exodus 20:11...11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Same in both KJV and New American Standard.

Was Moses lying? More yet, did God lie? Can God lie?

----- Original Message -----
From: < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Fw: Are you a Creationist?


The language of God is perfect, human ears cannot hear it.
The only option for God was to convey to us in an imperfect manner,
because we are imperfect beings.
The God message has been polluted by human intelligence throughout the
millenniums.
The Bible was written by man, inspired by God, but transferred to the
human realm in an imperfect language (human) and polluted by human selfish interests.

So. who ever take the bible literally (or any other Holly book) is denying
the real message of God, which can only be feel in a deep intimate
relationship with him. The Bible should be used only as inspirational,
never literally.

This is just my opinion.

Now think about this for a second. Who created man? God did. Did God create man the way He intended or not the way He intended?

Check out http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php and look at Questions and Answers: part B. Once it's finished downloading it move to about 48 Mins into the video. This is where Kent Hovind speaks on Contradictions in the Bible. Very good and also faith building especially in the accuracy of the Bible and specifically KJV version.

Now I know that KJV is difficult to read, with the thee's and thou's and the five and two hundred this and that's. But you just have to use a bit more brain power and checking a dictionary...Also check the dictionary from Old times during the 1611+ era...if possible. Words like "replenish" have a completely different meaning from "replenish" of today. "Replenish" back in the 1800's was "to fill.". Now the meaning changed about 100 years ago or in KJV Old English, it changed one-hundred years ago

Now Replenish means "To refill or repopulate". Check that out with www.m-w.com (Merriam-Websters) dictionary online.

Love you brother, but you can't feel and get a Word from God...Just look at John Smith, and Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnesses, and you'll see what Feeling gets you. Isaac was betrayed by his feelings with Jacob because he was blind he felt Jacob and it felt like Essau, but he knew it sounded like Jacob. So Jacob fooled Isaac into believing he was Essau because Isaac didn't trust his other senses and his mind. Isaac heard it was Jacob but it felt like Essau.

Be wary of your feelings. God says to renew your MIND, not your feelings. God says that you should seek Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding, and the most of these is Wisdom. Nothing in there about trusting your feelings. God says don't trust your heart because it is evil. Feelings come from your heart. Meaning your feelings will betray you.

a brother and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour and Lamb,

Tristan

----- Original Message -----
From: "John/Karen" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Fw: Are you a Creationist?


I believe the Bible can only be interpreted as the literal word of God. Any
one who tries to interpret it is only giving his own man made opinion of
what he thinks it means. That is how we got Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, New Age, etc. God wrote it so that even a child could understand, and children would probably understand it better than we do, because they would take God at his word instead of saying, "I wonder what that is supposed to mean?" He did not intend it for some elite spiritual group who is above others to gain his knowledge. He made it easy for every single person who wants to come to know him through his written word. It is for the simple, common, unlearned people. Yes, it takes time, study, and a great deal of meditation. His message has not been polluted, except by people giving false interpretations of it's meaning. The Bible itself is God's Holy book, and it is the way we can get to know him. It is the way he communicates with us. You say it was transferred to us by the imperfect human language, but the prophets God chose to write it understood perfectly what God wanted them to say, other wise He would not have trusted these men with his most important message. You talk about having a deep intimate relationship with Him, but it starts by understanding his teachings in the Bible first. How could you come to know or understand God without a basis to start from?

Please give it some thought.
Karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bongani Pityi" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:13 AM
Subject: Are you a Creationist?

Hi Karen,

I fully agree with what you are saying 100 & 1% and it is exactly as you
put it. The Word of God cannot be adulterated and diluted and even
analyzed for that matter; we are urged to STUDY it. Through careful
study thereof, we then through the help of the Holy Spirit can glean
revelations out of it. However, the Word has to be taken literally as it
has been brought raw to us; otherwise any addition or even omission is
from the Antichrist (devil). Jesus says expressly that "Unless we
believe as a little child, we shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven". So
good people of the Lord, we all know that a child would believe even the
very little insignificant thing they are told, and they would never have
to take pains and analyze what they are being told. Call it gullible if
you will, but even gullibility in the things of God keeps me and you
safe from the speculative lies of those who think they know the Word of
God, although they distort it. Also remember John the Revelator when he
said, "Anyone who adds to these words, God will add to him more torments
mentioned in the Book; and anyone who takes out from the words, God will
take out blessing from him".

Yes, I am well aware of the revelation given by the Holy Spirit to some
of us, and that is for the edification of the Body of Christ. However,
we need to be cocksure as to whether such revelation is indeed from the
Holy Spirit; for some might misinterpret their imaginations from their
carnal mind as the revelation, therefore misleading the whole Body of
Christ.

I am a Creationist, and I literally believe without any shadow of doubt
every Word contained in the Bible.

May the Lord you and yours in Christ Jesus' Mighty Name!!!

Bongani Pityi
Bisho, Eastern Cape
South Africa

Hi Bogani,

I believe what you say is true, I must omit one thing that you added in to your statement that is contradictory and I think it may just be the understanding of the words in English. This is not to say you are stupid in anyway. My wife is from South Africa and speaks Afrikaans and has a difficult time with the English language sometimes. But I always tell her, that she does much much better than I do with Afrikaans. So I'm ignorant in Afrikaans and that used to be my mother tongue or (Afrikaans, mueder taal)

Here's Merriam-Websters understanding of the word analyze:

analyze

Main Entry: an·a·lyze
Pronunciation: \&#712;a-n&#601;-&#716;l&#299;z\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): an·a·lyzed; an·a·lyz·ing
Etymology: probably irregular from analysis
Date: 1587
1 : to study or determine the nature and relationship of the parts of by analysis
2 : to subject to scientific or grammatical analysis

So as you can see analyze and study are exactly the same. So we can analyze the Word of God, and this is the same as you stated, "We are urged to STUDY it."

Just making that clear, but diluted and adulterated definitely I agree with that 100%.

So far my studies have brought me to the understanding that the KJV has withstood scrutiny and is still the closest English translation of the Original Hebrew and Greek and the Intention and Word of God to us.

The NIV, NASB, Revised Standard Edition, and others after the KJV fall short and if scrutinized do not pass the scientific nor Holy Spirit tests.

The latter books mentioned above, NIV, NASB etc...Believe in a GAP theory. Trying to incorporate a man-made idea that we came from rocks, soup and apes. Evolution. But, with 151 versions of the Bible, the KJV is the only one that has 64,000 scrolls and also many many fragments that back it up.

While the NIV, NASB, and the rest have 3 full scrolls and 64 fragments to back it up.

Homer's Odessey has 650 scrolls to back it's story and it's not even true at least to our understanding. It IS just a story.

Don't worry, I had been duped into hearing that the NASB goes back to the Original Hebrew and Greek texts and is much more accurate than the KJV. But since really scrutinizing this and having much of the help of brother Kent Hovind on this subject and the books that he offers as evidence, I have come to the understanding that God's Word is Infalliable and is best translated into English via the KJV version.

He has gone over a few of the supposed contradictions of the Bible which so far to date the count is 500, and these have been disproved because people can't read and understand the meanings of what the words say. Watch www.drdino.com/download.php "Questions and Answers: part B" and listen to the whole thing it's really good information. And it's backed by numerous studies, analysis, etc...But as always read it for yourself. And pray to God and ask Him to show you these things these Truths.

Thanks Bogani or your email and I agree with you except for that one statement including Analyze Everything else is great!!

----- Original Message -----
From: < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [Prophecy] Fw: Are you a Creationist?


Hi Karen, Tristan
I am so sorry; it was not my intention to be controversial.

I feel that God is trying to convey his message to us, from the
barbarians, with the Vedic's text, perhaps the Buddha, even the Koran, and
the Bible - which I believe is the more perfect.

Are you prepared to say that all those divine messages previous to
Christianity are false? Or all evil? Or perhaps are just parts of the BIG
message.

But we do not understand the big message, we are exclusivists, or it is
only the Bible. or only the Koran. and death to the rest!

I believe that God is the creator . of ALL. including many many many
messages, and we - out of our selfishness, become exclusivist - making
religious clubs and religious dogmas.

I am afraid that the way of exclusiveness, will take all of us to
Armageddon. And God will come back with new rules, and new messages and a
new Bible, because we seem to be incapable of integration.

jcls

----- Original Message -----
From: Jón Gaasedal
To: Raymond Aguilera
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Prophecy] Fw: Are you a Creationist?


Dear Karen

Amen! If we are not able to receive Jesus and His WORD as children, all
our theology can't help us!

Granted, there ARE indeed deeper layers hidden in the Bible - but the
SIMPLE and MOST IMPORTANT TRUTH is on the SURFACE in PLAIN Text and is to
be taken LITERALLY! Children understand LITERALLY! They're not abstract
thinkers.

The children grasp those few IMPORTANT things - and may also grasp some
of the other things as well - revelations to enjoy, wonder about and praise
the Lord for!

The "elite" only grasps some BIG, complicated - secondary things -
missing the whole point! Their stumble-stone! The Gospel is TOO simple for them!

Yes, God wants us to be as children (before Him) - and wisely blocks the
eyes and ears of the Proud and Wise of this world who think, that their
reasoning and intelligence can help them figure things out and reveal the
"truth" - their truth!

We all need to read the whole Bible - but we MUST get the very basics
also! Those who think, they are to interpret and rationalize what the
Lord is supposed to say, they fool themselves BIG TIME - because then they are
God! People and generations change over time - and so does religion. The
Bible is an absolute standard that doesn't change - and must be applied
to our thinking - getting us on track.

Do I speak from experience? Yes, to some degree! I threw most of my
theology and doctrine overboard and started again from scratch! All by
Gods Mercy! I had to! I was very complicated and "knew too much" - I was
simply messed up! Now I'm very simple and I know very little! But I've
learned, that this is probably how it should be! My flesh still "knows a
lot" - but it turns out to be speculations and false input from many
sources - much of it - often not sure what! And this is not so easy to
get rid of!

The only safe way for me is to concentrate on the important, literal
things! The rest is only useful for long discussions! And I have enough
stuff to fuel a debate for the next 200 years, I guess! That's a
dead-end!

Someone who wants to discuss the Bride VS Wedding Guests??? I don't want,
but you can read Psalms 45 (included below). Very few can understand this
- except they're meant to understand! So it's provided for those only!
Others can ignore it!

There ARE things only meant for a few - and despised by the rest - even
by true believers! We are not to cast our pearls before the swines either!
The Lord reveals certain things to certain people. And what is for YOU is
for YOU! Ray doesn't reveal everything! Only what the Lord tells him to
share! Oh yeah, I have a few things I will ONLY share and explain in
details to a few - a handful - including Psalms 45!

But repentance, humbleness, prayer, helping the poor etc. is for us ALL -
and is simply ALL that really matters - and the children knows this! The
rest can't save you - no matter how deep and true it might be!
STUMBLE-STONE! We'll learn it all in Heaven anyway, so don't you worry!

We are to be of ONE MIND - not regarding "high revelations" and
doctrine - but IN THE Holy Spirit and His work - with abundant Love and NO Self!
Those who are of ONE MIND may share things which they may not agree on -
but it's shared for consideration only and for seeking advice - and no
one gets their Pride hurt - because there's no Pride - and no one wants to be
"right"! And believe me, this is wonderful! I am willing to consider
really "crazy" things! ) And some "crazy" things are not crazy at all,
we may learn!

It doesn't bother me whether people think different than I do anymore -
except if they twist the very basics and mislead the sheep, of course. I
listen thankfully to what people say - and I learn a lot!


Psalms 45
[1] My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I
have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.
[2] Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy
lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
[3] Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy
majesty.
[4] And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness
and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
[5] Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby
the people fall under thee.
[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom
is a right sceptre.
[7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy
God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the
ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
[9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand
did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
[10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget
also thine own people, and thy father's house; [Luke 18:29-30]
[11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and
worship thou him.
[12] And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich
among the people shall intreat thy favour.
[13] The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of
wrought gold. [Relate this to Rev. 21:2]
[14] She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the
virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
[15] With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter
into the king's palace.
[16] Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make
princes in all the earth.
[17] I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore
shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

There are three groups of Christians:

These three groups wear three different garments.

Some will produce 30 fold, some 60 fold and some 100 fold.

A few will shine like the Sun, more as the Moon and most as the stars -
with various intensity.

There will be a New Jerusalem, a New Heaven and a New Earth.

There will be The Bride (sun), Kings (moon) and Priests (stars).

The Bride will never leave the New Jerusalem, The Kings will walk in and
out of it, the priests cannot enter it.

There's a competition for the crowns! There's a race and Paul run that
race! The stars are not counted or limited! But the Bride is! When the
number of gentiles is full, it's the Jews turn!

The Bible does NOT say, that the Church or Body is the Bride! The Bible
says, that the Church is the BODY of Christ - which is all three groups!

Paul did NOT reveal this! He said this is a secret! And this STILL is a
secret - only understood by a few - and despised by most!

The Bride has given herself 100% and is of ONE MIND and IS ONE with Jesus
Christ! Are you in this rare and precious position?

To me, this makes perfect sense. And I am mostly assured, that I still
belong to the lowest group! Without this knowledge, I would have no clue.

This is Dynamite, so please just understand or do not understand. You can
surely go to Heaven without understanding this or agree with this!

This is only the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg! And this is
all I'll provide in the public! If you understand this short message, then
the Lord will reveal you the rest, when you re-read your Bible and seek Him
for answers!

This is a VERY important message - and Satan HATES this message! That's
why I love it! He'll attack me for this - he always has! If you want
problems, then just share this! The time is short - and I share this to
get peace with it - but I don't want to! This post is confirmed by 3
witnesses today.

Be greeted by these words: The Lord is coming! Prepare! THIS is
important!
More important than anything else!

God Bless!

Jon

----- Original Message ----- From: "John/Karen"
< This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
To: "Raymond Aguilera" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Prophecy] Fw: Are you a Creationist?

I believe the Bible can only be interpreted as the literal word of
God. Any one who tries to interpret it is only giving his own man made
opinion of what he thinks it means. That is how we got Jehovah's
Witnesses, Mormons, New Age, etc. God wrote it so that even a child
could understand, and children would probably understand it better
than we do, because they would take God at his word instead of saying,
"I wonder what that is supposed to mean?" He did not intend it for
some elite spiritual group who is above others to gain his knowledge.
He made it easy for every single person who wants to come to know him
through his written word. It is for the simple, common, unlearned
people. Yes, it takes time, study, and a great deal of meditation. His
message has not been polluted, except by people giving false
interpretations of it's meaning. The Bible itself is God's Holy book,
and it is the way we can get to know him. It is the way he
communicates with us. You say it was transferred to us by the
imperfect human language, but the prophets God chose to write it
understood perfectly what God wanted them to say, other wise He would
not have trusted these men with his most important message. You talk
about having a deep intimate relationship with Him, but it starts by
understanding his teachings in the Bible first. How could you come to
know or understand God without a basis to start from? Please give it
some thought.

Karen

xavierkress wrote:


Dear jcls,

As I stated out of this, I would like you to provide examples and references for your understandings and not just opinions. I am looking for a logical, scientific, and Biblical discussion on this.

First off the Koran is with error. It cannot stand Scientific scrutiny as the KJV Bible can. Even the NIV, NASB and others after the KJV have many errors and contradictions and translating errors.

Now the reason we are exclusivists is because we want to have the most widely accepted and historically accurate scrolls and fragments, that were translated from the orginal sources and have past the test of time and scrutiny. Not just time. Just because something is old doesn't make it fact or the Truth. It is only old.

Example, Homer's Odessey is old, it has 650 scrolls to back up the story. However it is only a story and is not true because if you checked history most of the fantastical things that are listed there are unproveable today. Now it may have had some historical value, but not much.

KJV has been under the microscope, by Christians and Atheists and Agnostics alike and has never been proven wrong. A list of 500 supposed contradictions to the Bible are listed for the KJV and all are disproved to be contradictions.

This is why we trust the KJV as one of the only good English translations. The scrutiny that the KJV has been under, the Koran would not withstand the microscopic views and Athiest and Agnostic scrutiny, that the KJV has had.

How do you scientifically get to a Fact? First a person makes a hypothesis. (example: The moon is made of green cheese.). Then it passes quite a bit of scrutiny and then tries to stand the test of time. Upon actually going to the moon, we deduce that this Hypothesis is incorrect. And will not pass the point of being a hypothesis. Now if a Hypothesis passes this scrutiny and over a long period of time it is tested and remains to be proved correct, it then becomes a Theory. After more long periods of time and it's passing of much more scrutiny it proves right, it becomes a Fact. Like gravity. Things fall down or are pulled towards a much bigger object. And this happens all the time. It is seen or observed.

This is how you can approach the Bible and it will build your faith. The Koran will not do this it will fail you time and time again. This is not hate against Muslims this is simple fact.

As you stated which I believe is that God is perfect in all His Ways and man is corruptible. So if you look at the light of this understanding you'll see that the Koran is not the Bible intended by God because He is perfect. The Koran was either written purely by man or it was inspired by something other than God Almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The KJV is written as intended by God. Love you brother, but you must not follow feelings, nor should you trust your own mind or heart. Lean not on your own understanding.

Search the Scriptures and prove yourself righteous by sharpening Steel with Steel. Sharpen or renew your mind on the pages of the Bible. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the Truth through the Holy Scriptures of the Lord our God, our Saviour Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to lead you into All Truth.

Tristan,
i believe God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, literally...

Well, because

1. I believe the accounts of the book of genesis is true and reliable and God given.

2. I also believe that God did something between verse 1 and verse 2, but it was not necessary for us to know (He has done a lot of things without our knowledge, didnt He? ). Despite that He still proceeded to create the heavens and the earth in 6 literal days.

2. Because scientist's theory of how the universe came to be changes from time to time and are not absolute.

Science are only a tool to measure what God has done- say time. Science discovers that there are 24 hours in a day, and even invent the clock to measure it.

But science can never explain how did that 24 hours were there, and why it has always been consistently 24 hours EVERY SINGLE DAY and it never changes to 25 hours or 23 hours..

Science also has discovered that everything that we see are PROPERLY ARRANGED.

There are arrangements of atoms, then we have molecules, every different configuration of these arrangements produce something different in nature.

Science can measure it, but could never explain where this arrangement comes from and who determines that water must be made up of two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen.

Therefore in my opinion, it is a fatal mistake to rely upon such a tool that are only useful to measure things but cannot explain the creation of things, of the heavens and the earth.